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Post by maverick on Feb 20, 2015 11:23:00 GMT 1
Very surprised certain elements on this board haven't been screaming about our national defences and how under equipped the RAF is in defending ourselves from the Mighty Russian Bear given the recent coverage on TV.
But a couple of points which I hope some of our more savvy military aviation contingent can confirm/deny or expand upon -
Are the aircraft that have been coming close to our airspace really bombers? - Are these not intelligence or reconnaissance aircraft?
Are these aircraft not the same type pictured being intercepted many moons ago by Lightnings and Phantoms? Thus quite elderly?
Would these flights show up on FR24?
and finally, am I alone in thinking it would probably be a better policy to send up an airliner loaded with plane-spotters to photograph these aircraft and hopefully really p**s the Ruskies off by not taking them seriously?
TIA
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 13:10:52 GMT 1
am I alone in thinking it would probably be a better policy to send up an airliner loaded with plane-spotters to photograph these aircraft and hopefully really p**s the Ruskies off by not taking them seriously? TIA They obviously didn't get the message when we sent up the VC10  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 21:31:23 GMT 1
The Bears are Bear Hs, which makes them at least 30 years old, depending on which base they come from. For a brief period, I worked with a guy who head been a navigator on one of those beasts. He said they were extremely noisy inside and that flying around northern Europe was boring - until a NATO jet showed up, presumably! Incidentally, his English was almost accentless and, yes they can carry bombs, though the guy I spoke to said that they rarely carried them, in order to have a greater range.
They have the capability to perform intelligence and surveillance operations.
I doubt if they'd show up on FR24 because they aren't using transponders.
I think it's worth mentioning (though the MoD would never 'fess up to it in public), that we and other NATO members do the same to them. Now I wonder why our media never tell us that - try emailing BBC or SKY and telling them and see if it's broadcast...
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Post by davecalveley on Feb 22, 2015 9:51:05 GMT 1
The thing that surprises me is nobody has asked for a fly by at the mound yet!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 10:25:41 GMT 1
The thing that surprises me is nobody has asked for a fly by at the mound yet! lol! |
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Post by lesmcs on Feb 23, 2015 12:45:05 GMT 1
That would be nice, imagine the crowds couldn't Bear it! Regards Les McS |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 19:34:54 GMT 1
That would be nice, imagine the crowds couldn't Bear it! Regards Les McS Sales of ear defenders would be at an all-time high!: Incidentally, Engels Air Base, where these aircraft normally operate from, is near Saratov, which was a closed city in Soviet days. This meant that even Russians needed a special permit to visit it. Across the river, Saratov South was the manufacturing base for Yakovlev civil aircraft. |
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Post by airboejet on Feb 24, 2015 17:56:55 GMT 1
The thing that surprises me is nobody has asked for a fly by at the mound yet! lol! I am sure if you ask Sergie he will have a word with his komrads and arrange it |
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Post by Biggles on Feb 25, 2015 0:58:26 GMT 1
I am of an age like mist Meerkats who can recall the cold war periods of the past, these flight have been going on for many years as far back as 50/60 and early 70`s and yes Lightnings did sit on QRA Binbrook was one of many RAF bases I wintessed many a dramatic night time launch by a pair of Lightnings responding to a flight of TU Bears. I think what changed was the aggreement between the West and Russia to attempt a dissarmement program meening equal numbers of Bombers and fighters where withdrawn from operational use and mothballed, the US use the Desert to leave them lined up and visible to Russians to see. The Russians to all intent did the same. The change came with the installation of V Putin who is not only a Politician bit also ex Special Forces and also a Qualified Miltary Pilot. Good combination. unlike Clegg or anyone we have in office. Putin decided to gain favour by refurbishing many of the old TU 95 fleet and now has not only more modern aircraft buthas re trained the crews to fly them. He continues to increase the military fleets and crews where we in the West are going in the opposite direction. The incursion near Cornwall is a good example, 2 QRA Typhoon units where scrambled from Lossiemmouth it apparently takes 10 minutes to get them airborne and then a speedy trip down to Cornwall to accompany the offender. Now how long will it be before Putin does the same again, but this time what would happen if he then sent another Bear the opposite direction and then another and then another, bare in mind he could do this all day long for weeks with the units he has at his disposal. how many operational QRA`s could the RAF get airborne to meet these threats. I doubt it would take long before the RAF interceptions collapsed at which point I dread the situation that would leave us in. That is just an air threat scenario, what if VP then decided to add into the mix a Naval incurrsion test at the same time ( remember the last one when we had only one docked Type 42 available from Portsmouth which then had to be crewed and set sail all the way up to the Eest Coast of Scotland to meet the flotilla of Russians sitting and waiting not far off the mouth of the Firth of Forth  ? Only a week or so ago UK Defenses lost one maybe two Russian nuclear subs off West Coast of Scotland and we had nothing in our armoury that could locate them and we borrowed a US search aircraft to do the job. God forbid Argentina added anything to the test and landed on The Falkland Islands at the same time. Mark my words Putin will continue to push and push and continue Testing as he is now. What have we got to stop him words from people like Clegg ? I bet VP is terrified. |
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Post by maverick on Feb 25, 2015 2:23:28 GMT 1
Very surprised certain elements on this board haven't been screaming about our national defences and how under equipped the RAF is in defending ourselves from the Mighty Russian Bear given the recent coverage on TV. ..and there it is.. |
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Post by Biggles on Feb 26, 2015 0:37:21 GMT 1
Maverick, once again it seems your response to a sensible upload has resulted in sarcasm and a mildly offensive retort.
Could you explain "Certain Elements on this board" so people understand ?
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Post by ronturner on Feb 26, 2015 8:56:10 GMT 1
An interesting discussion.
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Post by maverick on Feb 26, 2015 23:37:27 GMT 1
Maverick, once again it seems your response to a sensible upload has resulted in sarcasm and a mildly offensive retort. Could you explain "Certain Elements on this board" so people understand ? Certainly.. Those elements which think we still have an Empire, have any real power in the World and should have massive armed forces to see off Johnny Foreigner. Usually Daily Mail or Sun readers.. "Once again.." how rude! |
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Post by Biggles on Mar 7, 2015 22:47:17 GMT 1
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Post by jake3 on Mar 8, 2015 4:03:31 GMT 1
There are some similarity's between now and 1939, A dictator in Europe sabre rattling and the UK with a run down air force ,navy and army. Really don't think Spitfires, Hurricanes and Lancaster's will cut it this time. All we need now is for Clegg to come back from Moscow on board an old BAE 146 and tell us there is nothing to worry about and I will be checking out EBAY for a used Anderson shelter.
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