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Post by robaero on Sept 16, 2019 12:22:43 GMT 1
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Post by buspilot on Sept 20, 2019 12:26:54 GMT 1
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Post by kuga59 on Sept 20, 2019 13:23:31 GMT 1
The failure of Thomas Cook will have many knock on effects. Although holidaymakers will be repatriated their holidays will be cut short. Hotels will be left empty, with losses building up. Prebooked flights and holidays will be refunded via ATOL A major decline in available holidays will push up prices for others.TUI will be rubbing their hands. Airports around Europe will feel the effect of reduced flights. Scheduled services which they run might encourage others to take over the routes Gatwick and particularly Manchester will be hit hard.
Manchester will be severely hit with the loss of revenue in the short term but will allow it to offer the freed up slots to others. This could have an effect on Liverpool.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 17:44:16 GMT 1
I can't see this company surviving now the press have hold of this, even if they were to get the £200m their looking for. Would you book a holiday or flight with a travel firm that you knew were in dire straights and could go bust at any moment? Looks like MAN will be playing host to a lot of grounded aircraft very soon.
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Post by buspilot on Sept 20, 2019 22:06:12 GMT 1
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Post by ronturner on Sept 21, 2019 8:28:47 GMT 1
Even though the effects mentioned by Kuga59 are probably correct, is this bankruptcy necessarily a bad thing? The business is obviously no longer a successful one, there is clearly over capacity n the market. Most ( but not all )passengers will be safeguarded financially and for repatriation. As always, its the employees who will lose most; certainly not the directors or the auditors that allowed the business to descend into financial chaos.
The last I heard is that Thomas Cook are blackmailing the government for a hand out of £200m on the basis it will cost £600m to get everyone home.
Thoughts on this? I would not hand over a penny without having a share in the business ( a big one) or first call on assets. (Like the tax man) Having just written that its probably the case that most assets are leased anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 10:30:47 GMT 1
The last I heard is that Thomas Cook are blackmailing the government for a hand out of £200m on the basis it will cost £600m to get everyone home. I wouldn't think for one minute that the government would Ron. They could have done this with lots of operators in the past (Monarch being the most recent large one) but chose not to. Most of the repatriation costs will be funded by ABTA, ATOL, credit card companies, etc. As you say, there is massive overcapacity in the sector and it would be unfair on other companies that are currently struggling too.
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Post by spitfire250 on Sept 23, 2019 2:09:52 GMT 1
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Post by buspilot on Sept 23, 2019 8:59:33 GMT 1
Things not being helped this morning by false news, mis-reporting and twisting facts. Sky reporting that return of all clients will take two weeks, which is correct, as if you had gone on a two week inclusive holiday yesterday, then your holiday is still there for you for it's full term. It's a fact not a sign of a timescale problem. Another media source(actually the MEN) mentions 105 aircraft being operated by Thomas Cook, but, as I state below, all are not grounded, just the 45 (I think) that are operated by the UK airline.
Panic is being spread amongst some clients already abroad as a result.
At the moment, despite them being part of the Thomas Cook Group, Condor Airlines, a seperate German registered company, is still operating all it's flights and none of it's fleet have been grounded. Similarly Thomas Cook Scandinavia flights are also continuing to operate. It is the UK operation that has ceased to trade.
UK Passengers need to read the dedicated CAA website or use the special phone line.
It will not be straight forward and there may be some earlier or later flights, but all will be taken care of.
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Post by kuga59 on Sept 23, 2019 10:05:51 GMT 1
After everyone is brought home, the fighting for compensation will start. I do hope all involved play fair.
And now the inquest will start. I thought Grant Shapps, Transport Minister gave a reasonable explanation on the bbc news this morning as to why the government didn’t bail them out. It came down to: “Any bailout would have only been temporary and in a couple of weeks the same problems would arise again”. I can only assume from this that finances must have been dire.
I have done a fair amount of travelling in recent years but never using Thomas Cook. They have always been more expensive than TUI or in arranging the trip yourself or through the likes of opodo/ Experian. They have operated flights/holidays to suit themselves rather than meeting the demand from the customer. The prime example apart from holiday charters is the football charters were the fly mostly from Manchester. They had many years ago established their bases in the UK and they never expanded away from them. They have expected their clients to travel to them, rather than use local airports.e.g. It is only in the last couple of years, since Jet2 have been around that they have had to try and establish a reasonable flight programme from Stansted. Potential customers are now a lot more savey when it comes to booking holidays. The internet and the low cost airlines have changed the travel market. Did Thomas Cook change with it? The general opinion listening to the so called experts are that the didn’t change quick enough. These days you cannot run a company focused company, it must always be a customer focused company. They have got it wrong and the current result proves it.
Looking forward, there is now a huge gap in the market. You can expect TUI to look at the most profitable parts of their business and Jet 2, but is there anyone else? You may see the name continue as the Scandinavian and German arm of the organisation are still trading. Could they take over some of the assets of Thomas Cook UK Ltd and carry on?
Somewhere in the pages of this site the question was asked “ does anyone know of any A320’s going cheap so we can form our own Liverpool based airline”, we’ll yes, there are a few in Manchester.
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Post by ian531 on Sept 23, 2019 11:51:33 GMT 1
The BBC news has just shown a helicopter shot of Manchester Airport, already about 12 or 13 Thomas Cook aircraft on the ground with tractors parked behind them, some are the LY registered aircraft
Ian
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Post by baldyman26 on Sept 23, 2019 19:44:41 GMT 1
I'm no travel expert but I find it unacceptable and unbelievable that a company can rack up what is being reported as a 1.1 billion pound debt.. The boss of the company earned around 8 million last year alone according to the BBC... I have no idea how that could ever be turned around, also how can the company be liquidated, I presume it leases the aircraft, will not own any of the shops or offices, will lease the hangars, not own any hotels, so how can any creditors expect any payments and given there is little in the way of collateral, how did the lenders allow it to get this bad... Also a quick look at income and operating revenues for 2018 didnt come anywhere close to the reported debt... To me this should've happened a long time ago...
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Post by ronturner on Sept 23, 2019 20:56:49 GMT 1
Public companies are obliged to appoint auditors to make sure the books are not cooked and the business is sound. Time and again we see companies going bust with enormous sums of debt. And yet it seems to come as a surprise and the auditors get their fees, year after year. Same for directors who preside over these disasters and very rarely indeed are brought to account for their (non) actions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 21:57:47 GMT 1
It doesn't matter how much debt a company is in as long as they can afford to pay it back. The problem that has arisen here is that last year, we had a very hot summer that saw, many would be late booking holiday makers decided to stay in the UK. The £1.1bn debt will have arisen over many years but up until this year Thomas Cook could manage to keep up with the repayments. The hot summer coupled with the week pound (allegedly caused by Brexit uncertainties) against the US Dollar, has meant higher costs for the travel agent/airline as they like most international companies will have dealt in the common currency of US Dollars, not UK Sterling. Perhaps it would be more prudent to pass a law preventing companies from accumulating debt passed a certain percentage of their assets. Obviously, the percentage level would depend on the market they are trading in, so therefore flexibility between markets would be required. Such a law would also mean the company must have a set amount of assets, thereby ensuring creditors and customers have a good chance of getting most (perhaps not all) of their money back should things go belly up.
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Post by buspilot on Sept 23, 2019 22:07:33 GMT 1
It appears that four of the Avion Express LV registered A321s are now operating rescue flights under Titan flight numbers.
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