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Post by vanguard on Nov 15, 2020 16:26:22 GMT 1
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Post by ronturner on Nov 16, 2020 7:15:00 GMT 1
I do not remember ever seeing G-AJRY. What year would that be from?
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Post by planemike on Nov 16, 2020 11:00:36 GMT 1
I do not remember ever seeing G-AJRY. What year would that be from? I missed that one too........!! On the register from 1962 to 1970....., to South Africa in 74. Based Stansted, don't think I made it to Stansted in the 60s!! Have a feeling it was a fairly "low hours" machine with most of its trips being to the Continent.... |
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Post by viscount on Nov 16, 2020 13:34:40 GMT 1
This aircraft and the registration G-AJRY is a rather an interesting one. The record on G-INFO states that in 1962 she was imported and registered G-AJRY, but there is also a second G-AJRY card for a different C-47 in 1947. Re-use of a registration on a different airframe was absolutely against the regulations at the time (and still today is only allowed only in very specific circumstances). Look at G-ASDX entry on G-INFO and the only record is for a Piper Aztec, that was not taken up. Why is that interesting and relevant? I return to that at the end. G-INFO lists the progression of G-AJRY's owners as:
11/62-06/70 Standard Telephone & Cables of London
07/70-08/71 Trans Meridian Air Cargo at Stansted
09/71-04/74 Mr T.D.Keegan at Stansted - owner of TMAC.
So, using the Excel search function, and working backwards down the years of the Visiting Aircraft Logs, I did immediately locate a visit to Liverpool on Saturday 21st July 1973 f&t Southend - same day as one of the Pan American Boeing 707 charters. That rang a bell, so look at my 1970s scanned images, and there she is in the two tone blue scheme BUT with no titles and a large blue 'K' on the tail. Carry on down the years. The aircraft visited three times in 1970, twice around the date of the change of ownership. On Monday 15th June 1970 from & to Stansted; on Tuesday 14th July 1970 again from & to Stansted and finally Saturday 19th December 1970, yet again from & to Stansted, this time as a crew ferry for crews flying TMAC CL-44D G-AXUL on Ford Motor Co. freight flights. Being right on the 'paper' transfer of ownership dates it is not possible to know if the operator was Standard Cable or Trans Meridian for the June and July visits, as it could be easily still be carrying the old titles after the actual transfer of ownership. So I continue to work my way back through the years of annual spreadsheets and sure enough there she is again, on Friday 3rd May 1963 recorded with the notation "with passengers to attend a Liverpool Corporation symposium". So with the owners and a reason for calling both matching, that could date the visit, but look at the image closely and she is standing on concrete only laid in Spring 1966. So the photo must certainly be Summer 1970. However, although it is now some 5 years or so since I typed the 1962 movements onto Spreadsheet, I knew that was not the end of the story, as I had researched it before. Just to check, searched for G-AJRY in the 1962 movements, as expected nothing found. But search G-ASDX and rather oddly find that a Dakota G-ASDX of Standard Telephone & Cable visited Liverpool on Wednesday 21st November 1962 from Heathrow, night stopped, and onto Prestwick the following day! Yes, it is the same aircraft - now that is a rare event, while we have had the odd painter's mistake in the past, an aircraft flying around using a totally 'wrong' registration is rare indeed. On investigation in the 3 volume tome that is the Air Britain history of the DC-3, it confirms (unlike the G-INFO site) that the aircraft was allocated the in-sequence registration G-ASDX on 19th November 1962 which must have been immediately applied to the aircraft on import, ex N702S. The C.A.A. working with c/no 13366 thought that the aircraft had been British before, so on 21st changed the allocation so the aircraft was returned to G-AJRY. Later when it was found that the aircraft's C/no was actually 13331, so a totally different aircraft, the error was quietly overlooked and the aircraft remained G-AJRY. It could not return to G-ASDC as on 6th December that was allocated again, this time to a PA-23 Aztec 250 being imported by CSE Aviation Ltd. So just 6 visits over a 13 year span, so no wonder the aircraft is not recalled by many, despite the striking executive scheme. So photo dated to June or July 1970 and a little tale of CAA confusion (not that were called the CAA in 1962) thrown in. |
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Post by planemike on Nov 16, 2020 14:30:07 GMT 1
Viscount........... Thanks for the history...interesting!!! In 1962 it would have been the ARB (Air Registration Board) ??
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Post by viscount on Nov 16, 2020 14:57:35 GMT 1
The ARB agreed. Thank you. I had MoA (Ministry of Aviation) and the later Board of Trade whistling around in my head, but while predecessors of the CAA, neither was correct organisation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 23:29:31 GMT 1
Fascinating story. Like Ron, I don't remember seeing that aircraft either. Nor do I remember seeing G-ASDX - and I didn't miss much in those days! Definitely a rarity in every sense of the word. I think you may have to change your moniker to Sherlock Holmes, Viscount!
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Post by ronturner on Nov 17, 2020 7:51:26 GMT 1
Thanks for the research. Totally fascinating.
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Post by planemike on Nov 17, 2020 15:04:36 GMT 1
Fascinating story. Like Ron, I don't remember seeing that aircraft either. Nor do I remember seeing G-ASDX - and I didn't miss much in those days! Definitely a rarity in every sense of the word. I think you may have to change your moniker to Sherlock Holmes, Viscount! garston..... You would certainly have had to be lucky/quick off the mark to catch G-ASDX, registered for only a few weeks in 1962. Begs the question, was the aircraft photographed?? I don't recall having seen an image of it. Does seem we were rather "slack" missing G-AJRY as it was around for about 12 years!! I too did not miss too much in the 60s and 70s. Do not recall it being an Eastleigh (Southampton) visitor in the early 60s: my home base at the time. www.rafblakehillfarm.co.uk/dakota-delany |
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Post by viscount on Nov 18, 2020 0:13:23 GMT 1
There is one on a South African Dakota website: www.dc-3.co.za/dc-3-individual-aircraft-history/cn-13331.htmlI seem to recall that she was only G-ASDX for a matter of days, rather than weeks - and two of those days she was at Liverpool. I wonder if she was on her way to Prestwick for the repaint into the two tone blue when she called at Liverpool as G-ASDX? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2020 8:37:55 GMT 1
Nice photo's Vanguard of the Viscount and the Dak- thanks for sharing.
AM
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Post by vanguard on Nov 29, 2020 17:55:56 GMT 1
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Post by viscount on Nov 29, 2020 21:05:05 GMT 1
Always good to look at photos of the regulars - I have amazingly few photos from the 70s in my collections, so am always please to see new ones.
The production lists for G-ATMJ shows that it was with BAF from late 1970 to late 1971. The Visiting Aircraft Logs which I have spent so much time typing from the handwritten notebooks show that during that period G-ATMJ called at Liverpool only twice.
Sunday 28/02/71 from & Southend with BAF for crew training.
Wednesday 29/09/71 routed through Southend to Inverness, unfortunately why the visit was made was not recorded at the time.
The weather could easily be either February or September! However, even though Sundays were often poor days for visitors, the February visit was on a day with no absolutely no GA visitors, which is a clue that the weather may have been poor. On Wednesday 29/9 there was another camera grabbing visitor in the form of Champion Spark Plugs Gulfstream II N1823D which night stopped.
X X X X X
The 4 volume tome that is the MAS/LAASI 'British Independent Airlines since 1946' (pub 1976/77) gives G-AMFV as with Kestral 10.70 to 8.72, their only other aircraft being Viscount G-AVJB 3.72 until the operator collapsed 1.11.72.
The Dakota is recorded as not visiting in 1970, 6 times during 1971, 5 times during 1972 - once after Kestral had ceased trading. So 10 visits with Kestral - reasons recorded include LFC fans to a Wembley final, a football team charter, and Ford's freight. Their Viscount G-AVJB called 5 times during 1972, once with a football team, the other charters likely for Elder Dempster Shipping on crew changes.
Although not searchable on NWAN, the 1970, 1971 and 1972 Visiting Aircraft Log listings are on NWAN elsewhere on this Nostalgia section.
Delightful photos, thanks 'Vanguard'.
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Post by John Jones on Nov 30, 2020 11:04:57 GMT 1
Great images from the past, thanks for sharing.
John J
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Post by bulldog on Nov 30, 2020 17:06:03 GMT 1
As I have little else going on today went hunting old photos. I only used to take prints , so these images are I phone pictures of 40 year old photos. So not great but shows airport and a few defunct airlines anyway. The Lightning is an airshow day, some of the others Diversion days. The line up at Coninsby was just pure love. Couldn't resist sharing it with all the younger members, so they realise why us oldies talk lovingly about the past.......  IMG_8016 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8039 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8038 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr
 IMG_8024 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8021 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8020 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8018 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr First visit of a DC10  IMG_8015 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8013 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8010 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8009 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8008 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8032 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8031 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8030 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8027 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr
 IMG_8026 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8037 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr
 IMG_8036 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8035 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8034 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr  IMG_8033 by Clyde Harden, on Flickr |
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IMG00141 (2) by Frank Nicholls, on Flickr
IMG00139 (2) by Frank Nicholls, on Flickr
IMG00140 (2) by Frank Nicholls, on Flickr
