Travel Agents etc

[LPL]

I cannot see 'full service' airlines having much difference in the commission they pay, certainly there would not be any difference between KLM from LPL or MAN.

So I would say its the travel agents lack of knowledge, with some degree of lack of knowledge of the buying customers behalf too.

[calflier]

May 17, 2009 14:24:41 GMT 1 LPL said:

I cannot see 'full service' airlines having much difference in the commission they pay, certainly there would not be any difference between KLM from LPL or MAN.

So I would say its the travel agents lack of knowledge, with some degree of lack of knowledge of the buying customers behalf too.

Yep I think you are right.

[richardheywood]

It's been a long time since most airlines paid travel agents any commission. I own a business travel agency in Sussex and like all the others we charge fees for our professional services.

[calflier]

May 17, 2009 14:37:26 GMT 1 richardheywood said:

It's been a long time since most airlines paid travel agents any commission. I own a business travel agency in Sussex and like all the others we charge fees for our professional services.

I dont think we are talking about comission to the company. but there are also incentives for the agents themselves from the operators they book people on, maybe its different in your company,but not in the big ones,We are talking about booking through agents in general not just the KLM Liverpool-Amsterdam route,so the agent is going to try and book people on what they can do best out of,As Ron Turner says his daughter salary ,is not that great,so comission and incentives are how these companies expect to keep their staff happy.

[richardheywood]

I hear what you say Calflier, but airlines that offer direct incentives to agency staff are as rare as hen's teeth these days. It is more prevalent from tour operators, who are not the issue here. Agencies who incentivise their staff who make bookings will do so on the basis of the number of bookings they generate, regardless of carrier booked. This is because no carrier pays commission any longer - OK 1 or 2 pay 0.1% but that's it. I wish it were otherwise.

Agencies charge a service fee for giving the customer advice and then making the reservation. Some agencies will charge additional service fees for making changes to reservations, in addition to any additional charges made by the airline involved. Some agencies charge differential fees depending on whether the passenger is travelling domestic, short haul or long haul. Some agencies will charge differential fees if the passenger is travelling in business or first class.

Our policy is to charge a one off flat rate fee regardless. The time taken to undertake the work involved, for which the customer is paying, is no different if they are travelling to Newcastle or New Zealand. Why should the customer pay us more because he chooses to spend more? This policy has won us a fair amount of business because we are perceived as being open and honest rather than ripping people off. We are only a single outlet that is strictly business travel and linked services such as conference organisation, design and audio visual production. Despite being relatively small we manage to win business from the big boys like Carlson Wagon Lit and Amex - and they are probably the only agencies that get any override commission from any airline these days. It used to be very different, but all airlines are anxious to reduce their distribution costs to the lowest possible figure, so life can be tough at times.

But back to the point - I do not think travel agents are influenced to book particular carriers. What is required is a reasonable marketing budget from KLM and the Airport to educate the public and agents alike about the benefits of travelling long haul from Liverpool via Amsterdam, The good connecting times. Only one terminal to worry about in Amsterdam, and a decent one at that which is clean and everyone speaks English. Baggage checked through to the final destination. Great Duty Free and a pretty good on board product from KLM in all classes.

[ronturner]

The way it works in the company my daughter works for is this.
Customer wants travel or holiday.
Consultant looks at several options, routings, packages, personal knowledge, insurance etc.
She offers a price based on what her company has to pay the airline or operator and what she thinks the customer might stand.
Thus, if succesful, she has made a profit for her employer and a commission for herself.
Its a judgement. Sometimes she does not win.
The point is this. The airport of departure is seldom the first consideration. The motivator is profit and earnings.
(Of course you have to satisfy the customer, otherwise you never get any return business, but most customers do not care where they fly from, so long as they get where they want to go.) As I said earlier, this is the challenge for Liverpool Airport.) I too am amazed at just how many people still use this service across all age groups, internet has not killed it off, thank goodness for her.

[khardwk]

Any agency which can feed passengers on to our KLM (and other) flights is very important to the survival of services whether they be High Street Travel Agents, Business House Travel Agents or others.
I do however tend to feel that 'we' may be over emphasising the contribution High Street Agents may make to providing passengers for a scheduled service like the KLM one. I tend to agree with calflier, that for services like the KLM one, internet bookings either direct with airline and/or via on line agencies are far more important.
It would be very interesting if our correspondent northbynorthwest, who appears to be in the privileged position of having access to some flight booking details, could throw light on the question of how total bookings on services like the KLM one split down to those from airline internet site, general on line agencies, business house agencies and traditional (if they still exist?) High Street Travel Agencies etc.?

Please don't misunderstand, ALL bookings are important, but realistically some sources will be more important than others. The answer to the question will be a real indication as to where limited availability of promotion effort should be most usefully put.

[northbynorthwest]

May 18, 2009 16:12:37 GMT 1 khardwk said:

It would be very interesting if our correspondent northbynorthwest, who appears to be in the privileged position of having access to some flight booking details, could throw light on the question of how total bookings on services like the KLM one split down to those from airline internet site, general on line agencies, business house agencies and traditional (if they still exist?) High Street Travel Agencies etc.?

Sorry, unable to do that - it would be proprietary information, even though it would be interesting to find out. I can pull up passenger loads on all KLM services just broken down into business/economy bookings, just as I can for my own carrier. I typically won't give out actual loadings, but can pass on trends.

[LPL]

One thing I cannot understand is that KLM does not want to dilute their MAN flights.

Surely if that was to happen, dilute exMAN flights, it proves that those who have a choice are choosing to fly from Liverpool which proves that the market is their for LPL.

[northbynorthwest]

KLM can't help but lose passengers from their MAN operations - I am sure that most people who have flown on KLM MAN-AMS in the past will have noticed many Liverpool accents onboard. What they are banking on is being able to pick up passengers from the other carriers who would be flying MAN-LHR/FRA/CPH/BRU-ATH for example. Now people from the LPL catchment area have the added choice of LPL-AMS-ATH, etc. Furthermore, by freeing up capacity out of MAN, they can more aggressively try to capture passengers from the MAN catchment area who would also be flying through LHR/FRA/ZRH. etc, etc to their final destinations. So, yes, it will dilute traffic out of MAN, but it will also give them the ability to gain incremental traffic through both LPL and MAN. That is why it is so important to have LPL-AMS-onward connections marketed throughout the northwest by the airline and by LPL Airport itself. If they don't get that incremental traffic and merely dilute revenues out of MAN, then LPL-AMS will not last.

[steh]

I know somebody who until recently ran an airport transfer service to Manchester, he'd charge £60 total for drop off and pick up regardless of how many he took (up to 6). He tells me most of his business came from backhanding travel agents to recommend him to customers as their solution to getting to Manchester. I'm sure he wouldnt be the only transfer service who does this, so in effect it may not be in the interests of some travel agents to promote Liverpool airport.

[harbourcotter]

I have just had appalling service from Travel Agents. I booked today flights to South Africa via AMS/KLM. However, I wanted my business put through LPL agents to provide support for the local economy if they could equal the KLM fares.

I visited Thomas Cook in Belle Vale. The 'Lady' said it was impossible to book these flights from LPL and it had to MAN. I informed her to check via LPL. She refused. I reiterated very strongly to check for LPL flights. Very reluctantly she did so - I was expecting her to say 'the computer says no' and I was not disappointed. She stated there were no flights at all available. I told her that I had already flown this route so that was untrue which she simply stated that it must be klm them. So she did have some knowledge. However she still refused to assist. I have never known an agent so bad. When I stated I would book directly with KLM she simply shrugged her shoulders. I had to look carefully around in case they were filming little britain.

I subsequently phoned an agent in Widnes (co-op)who stated something similar, but at least offered to check. She called back and apologised and stated she was not aware of worldwide flights available from LPL and she had always routed everyone from Manchester . Her company had never informed her of the LPL flights.

These 2 agents are quite close to LPL and it is shocking to hear. I appreciate that most people now buy over the internet (which I did today as it was £60.00 cheaper - incidentally the flight centre will currently beat any internet/agent quote) but on speaking to agents they still get a quantity of people calling in for long haul flights.

[sfp]

I am very interested in reply #26 regarding the recent experiences as in one of my earlier posts (reply #4 in this thread) I referred to a Thomas Cook agency - that was the Belle Vale Branch!

When I was in the branch there were no other customers present and all the staff heard all the details of my enquiry! Clearly there may have been different staff on duty but it is disappointing to find that nothing has changed.

[LPL]

This does not surprise me.

However if you use the Skyteam website that reckons Liverpool has no flights to Amsterdam either.

[maverick]

You really must report these difficulties to the Airport directly so they can act on them.