Jet2

[LPL]

May 30, 2011 1:40:06 GMT 1 @cessfly said:

As bad as it may seem I just dont see LPL growing to be much more.

By most accounts Jet2 aren't interested in LPL and EZY and FR have done an amazing job of getting local peole to use the airport with KLM getting the business passengers.
I would like to know where people think extra growth will come from. Whoever thought extra profit comes from more airlines is sadly misguided.

On the contrary.

When R2 was going through its inquiry it was stated that 6 million pax depart from other airports when LPL would be more suitable.

LPL even now is one million short of that figure and the 'propensity' to fly is now greater than it was 15 years ago.

[cessfly]

'LPL', all that means is passengers are using MAN and other airports. MAN itself has established itself as a major airport and crucially has critical mass. I just dont see much further growth from LPL and it not being easyjet or Ryanair behind it.

Millions of people leave Yorkshire for their flights for example, but they are never likely to claw back those passsengers at Leeds or Doncaster. Its just the way things are Im afraid.

[LPL]

May 30, 2011 11:59:23 GMT 1 @cessfly said:

'LPL', all that means is passengers are using MAN and other airports. MAN itself has established itself as a major airport and crucially has critical mass. I just dont see much further growth from LPL and it not being easyjet or Ryanair behind it.

Exactly, no airport pulls its entire throughput from its local area.

LPL is by no means taking all its throughput from its local population (6 million pax journeys in 1995) never mind pulling in those from Lancs, Cheshire, the IOM or Wales.

Now that LSP is online then Yorkshire is on the radar now too.

www.liverpoolairport.com/assets/_files/documents/may_11/peel__1306505714_2011_05_27_-_Rail_services_to_.pdf

[cessfly]

It may well be on the radar, but Manchester has the clout, and is also relatively central to the bulk of the Yorkshire population and the majority population in the North West. Suggesting that Jet2 should open a base at LPL when one of their largest bases is only 40 miles away is therefore a moot point.

As I say, succcessive managements have done an incredibly impressive job of facilitating the low-cost growth and breaking some of the Manchester hegemony in the North West, and I suspect it will continue. The problem is that VAS have inherited a legacy of airlines getting very good deals and they have to make their investments pay. I would expect attention going to other aviation and business park revenues for the now, with perhaps more expansion from easyjet and Ryanair as and when.

[delta154]

perhaps more expansion from easyjet

The problem I have got with easyjet, is that I do believe they have hidden agendas regarding the north west. Now, Im not suggesting a pull out is imminant, but, you have to look at some of the decisions regarding MAN vs LPL.
Carolyn McCall stated publically that MAN growth wont hinder LPL growth. Fine and dandy, but then you look deeper.
Firstly, in most statements regarding profits/growth etc, LGW/MAN are the main UK airports mentioned for growth,.
Secondly, a lot of easyjets pax on SXF/MAD/BFS-LPL come from the MAN area, and I would go as far to say make up a large proportion of the loads, as seen as until this year, no alternative was available. Whilst I expect BFS to continue to do well from LPL, I wonder what the impact of adding SXF/MAD to the MAN base will have on the LPL routes.
Whilst LPL still has the upper hand on frequency right now, its only an extra 2 per week to SXF and 4 per week to MAD. I wonder how much of a difference that will make to pax wanting to originate in MAN, how long until MAN is uppedto match/better LPL frequency, and plus MAN has the advantage of matching LPL's seating capacity as there are far more A320's vs A319's at MAN, so the A320's can be rotated on the route in place of the A319 where neccesary.
Lastly, duplicated routes MAN/LPL increases year on year. MAN/LPL now have GVA/SXF/MAD/BFS/PMI, and there are persistant internal rumours that LPL-GIB was only put on due to no spare slots in the MAN based units to operate from there. Its now expected that as Monarch are going all-scheduled, GIB may be moved to MAN, or a seperate route opened to compete with ZB on a more level playing field now that MAN has 6 units with a 7th on the way.

Like I say, im not predicting a mass withdrawal from LPL, but, given whats happening down the road, the future certainly is going to be one to keep an eye on.....

[LPL]

Jun 1, 2011 15:25:20 GMT 1 @delta154 said:

perhaps more expansion from easyjetand there are persistant internal rumours that LPL-GIB was only put on due to no spare slots in the MAN based units to operate from there

Slots - MAN has many slots if they change schedules. so that is no reason.

Internal rumours - heard straight from an 'internal' horses mouth that the reason it was flown exLPL was due in no small way to the Liverpool financial industry's behest.

[delta154]

actually MAN's slots are actually quite tight. Thats why this winters MAN-SXF/BFS are having to be run with part MAN based units, part SXF/BFS based units.

Also, can only report back what was told to me. At the time of LPL-GIB being introduced, there were no spare slots with MAN based units, and with GIB not being a base, couldnt come from that end either.

[LPL]

As I said I heard it first hand, not hearsay, from an EZY insider as to the reason.

[delta154]

Mine too came from an internal source first hand, so seems there are 2 versions of the same story.

[charlie]

Growth from LPL will be determined by what Carolyn McCall believes to be the bigger hitter and as always it will be MAN that will prosper and LPL to suffer,in the eyes of McCall her loyalties are more northern based than were LPL is geographically,look at her CV.LPL management over the years has worked hard to establish LPL as THE lo-cost place to fly,maybe its time to look to foreign lo-cost companies to fly from here,and really make a mark ,all options have to be looked at,the operators at MAN certainly do that,we need to do likewise before everything that has been achieved will be rendered useless if MAN steal all that we possess

[eye2eye5]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that you really are far too downbeat. Anyone remember that we have just had the best April figures on record?
Let's get back to doing what we do best, which is talking up the airport and telling everyone what a great place it is to fly from. If I hadn't supported Liverpool for more years than I care to remember and I read this thread, I would never come near the place. Delighted to report that I will be using easyJet on Saturday, KLM in September and Ryanair in November. The glass is half full! If you dont like the litter, pick it up!

[danairamb]

There is a difference between being downbeat and realistic. Nobody on this list would want to see LPL fail, but lets be realistic, the past has taught us that carriers will use MAN out of choice if it makes good economic sense. When I lived in LPL many years ago I preferred to fly from LPL for convenience, and to support my local airport. However there was no pretense that flying to and from MAN was not a more pleasant experience. I still try and fly into LPL when visiting the area, although MAN is just as easy as my final destination has much better road links, only loyalty will make me use LPL. Currently the only advantage of LPL (apart from loyalty) is the variety of low cost flights available. LPL needs to do all it can to maintain this advantage. Most passengers dont care about loyalty, that is reality not negativity. .You can't pretend that LPL has other advantages over MAN in terms of physical facilities. Just read the comments on Skytrax.

[cessfly]

I echo what danairamb says. I am not a local, I dont even live in the north west, but I have used both MAN and LPL and I must say both have their pros and cons. The thing is that MAN has the more central location and the airlines know that, hence quite a substantial long-haul offering. People must not forget how far LPL has come, before demanding more growth.

At the end of the day LPL is a business yet to turn a profit. Now that VAS-a proper airport operator- have taken over, they will be looking at all possible ways to encourage sustainable growth and importantly a profit. I would guess that trying to get another based airline would be counter productive, and trying to get more overseas lo-co's would be far more beneficial as had been suggested a couple of posts back.

[LPL]

Jun 2, 2011 22:18:02 GMT 1 danairamb said:

Nobody on this list would want to see LPL fail

You need to open your eyes if you think thats true, some dont even bother to change their usernames from other forums to disguise their agendas.

[danairamb]

There are way more important things in life - relax. I still maintain that the majority of people on this this list don't want to see LPL fail. Anyone who is over obsessed at the rivalry between LPL and MAN needs a life. The two cities have always been rivals and always will be, be it airports, football or anything else.