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Post by clifftop on Jun 20, 2011 20:09:33 GMT 1
...but, HOW do single engined aircraft get from the USA to the UK?
We see lots of "N" registered GA on here.... how do they get here?
Do they make an immense trip over as much land as possible with several fuel stops??
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lfsflyer
Full Member
Live to fly, fly to live :)
Posts: 154
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Post by lfsflyer on Jun 20, 2011 21:11:32 GMT 1
Hi there they get ferried across making all different stop's along the way, if it's from the states to here I think they fly over greenland. Hope this helped Thanks Liam
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Post by Biggles on Jun 20, 2011 21:30:37 GMT 1
There is probably not really a set answer to this question. Some aircraft owners hire "Ferry Pilots" to collect the aircraft if purchased or owned in the US and wanted to be brought to UK or Europe. Usual route is US/Canada/Greenland/Iceland/ Scotland. Other frames are brought by container in bits and reassembled at the destination. I guess you pay your money and takes your chances. Lastly and I may be wrong but I think there is or was some regulatory benefit in owning an "N reg" but not using it in N reg country. I am sure someone more qualified will clear this question properly.
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Post by clifftop on Jun 20, 2011 21:37:35 GMT 1
Chaps, thanks for those replies, it confirms what I thought. I asked this Q on UKGA, the reply was rather vague..... I didn't bother with PPrune, they have proved to be an elitist bunch of tossers...
Quite a challenge then, to get a light aircraft across continents...
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Hunter
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Hunter on Jun 20, 2011 22:26:33 GMT 1
There are some advantages for keeping an aircraft on an 'N' registration. Such as; A pilot with the FAA IR gets worldwide FAA IR privileges. This is the #1 reason private pilots do it, in most cases. No Insurance Premium Tax (saves 5% on the premium) always helpful .Easier installation of modifications, Mods on 'G' registered a/c take huge amount of paper work between owner and caa. Pilot maintenance is permitted, to an extent which is currently superior to the UK Private CofA regime. being on a 'G' reg also brings other maintenence cost such as mandatory engine overhaul every 12 yrs. the list goes on. Many aircraft are moded with ferry tanks for the trip over from america following a path over Greenland+Iceland.
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Post by viscount on Jun 20, 2011 22:56:11 GMT 1
For the more powerful singles eg Cessna 208, Piper Malibu etc, all GA twins and shorter range biz-jets, there are two main ferry routes from the USA to Europe. In general terms not that much has changed to the routes since they were established during WWII. There is a north and a south ferry route, which one is used is down to forecast weather, range and pilot choice. To enable long over-water sectors in limited range aircraft, extra tanks are routinely installed in the place of the back seats eg Cherokee Arrow, Cessna 210 etc.
The favoured summer route, but is used throughout the year, is for aircraft to head up to Canadian airfields such as St.Johns in Newfoundland, or Halifax in Nova Scotia and from there across to Greenland eg Narsarsuaq or Kangerlussuaq, or if range allows direct to Reykjavik or (for biz-jets and larger) Keflavik, on the SW tip of Iceland. From Reykjavik onto Scotland (Stornoway, Wick, Prestwick) or if range allows on into mainland Europe.
The alternative, particularly in severe North Atlantic winter weather is head for Bermuda, then across to Atlantic to the Azores, then onto Portugal/Spain or beyond. The main over-water leg is somewhat longer, limiting this route to those types with an even longer range available. In the days of manual navigation, islands were a long-range flight hazard, being easy to miss! During WWII from the Azores the southern delivery route often continued onto Africa, then the Middle and even Far East war theatres, so was much used. To get to Britain from the Azores meant a hazarous flight in an unarmed aircraft across the Bay of Biscay off the coast of occupied France.
There was a South Atantic ferry route from Brazil to Cape Verde or Ghana. However, politics in West and Saharan Africa don't make this a popular option today!
For light singles eg Cherokees, Tomahawks, Cessna 150s, AA-5s and for older (more tempramental and valuable warbird) types crating is a favoured method. The aircraft is dismantled and placed in wooden jigs and securely loaded into a standard road/sea container.
Generally helicopters are de-rigged and de-fuelled at the dock-side and loaded on Ro-Ro Container ships as inside hold freight on their own wheels, then off-loaded, re-rigged and flown off to the nearest airport for fuel. That is why Seaforth Docks does have the occasional AW.139, Puma, Bell 214, S-92, right upto Chinook passing through (read the thread on Chinooks at LPL).
At times dismantled warbirds have been towed to docks from an airport, but this today is rare. Although in WWII thousands of aircraft eg Mustangs and Thunderbolts, arrived at the docks from the USA, were pulled by road via Allerton Road to Speke and made ready for flight by Lockheeds (see photos in Phil Butler's Lpl Airport Book).
Light aircraft can be transported inside large freighter aircraft eg Boeing 747F, An-124 etc, but the high cost makes this a rare event. The military though do carry helicopters inside C-17s, C-5s etc as routine between operational theatres.
With engine reliability much improved, and basic range extended through more efficient fuel burn, some smaller singles are now routinely ferried across the northern route eg SR-20/22 Cirrus aircraft. Of course with SatNav a great deal of the dead-reckoning navigational uncertainty during long Ocean crossings has gone. 'Glass cockpits' with computer driven navigation, auto-pilots, engine and fuel management etc also help make long over-water flights routinely safer.
It was not just ferry flights that needed intermediate stops trans-atlantic. Prestwick and Shannon had their 1950's hey-day as fuel stops for the likes of DC-6, DC-7, Constellation, even the Boeing 707 and DC-8s. Indeed on a full (189 pax) charter flight with Dan Air, as late as 1975 onboard G-AZTG a Boeing 707-321 we routed Manchester-Prestwick (for fuel & more pax)-Sondrestromfjord (west side of Greenland, close to Arctic Circle for fuel uplift)-Vancouver, and vv on the return. Sondrestromfjord being an airfield established in WWII as one of the Bluie West aerodromes for ferrying C-47s (and other types) from the USA to Britain. An autobiography by Ernst K. Gann, an American pilot who pioneered the northern delivery route made a great impression me when I read it, very many years ago - so much so I can recall his name without looking it up.
OK, thats all. Any longer and I would be writing a book on the topic! Could be an entry on Wikipedia, but I've not tried a search.
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Post by Biggles on Jun 21, 2011 0:34:43 GMT 1
Not even used a life CT, telephoned a friend oR used 50/50.
Another good response for information from a vast data base.
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Post by viscount on Jun 21, 2011 0:45:55 GMT 1
Biggles,
I've been called many things, but never "a vast data base"!!
.............its getting late, I'm signing off.
Brian.
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Post by clifftop on Jun 21, 2011 12:10:35 GMT 1
Once again, excellent replies. Many thanks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2011 18:18:28 GMT 1
Not exactly GA, I know, but this is the basic flight planning document we used to take the 748 to Ecuador back in 1981, before computers were used for flight planning! I don't have one for the return, but the route would have been very similar (subject to weather!). Apologies for the cropping but the file was too big to post in its' original form. Hope you find this helpful. Attachments:
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Hunter
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Hunter on Jun 21, 2011 21:39:22 GMT 1
Ah, good old Woodford. Wont see that on many more plogs....
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