Ryanair's Manchester Base

[steh]

Following on from easyjets expansion there, this is seriously worrying news for Liverpool as Manchester now seems to be aggressively targeting airlines using here, I wonder if other airlines at Manchester that dont use Liverpool are getting the same deal that Ryanair are. As the chief operating officer of Manc airport Penny Coates says "We've seen a decline in passenger numbers over the last two or three years particularly since the recession kicked in. She said the airport had lost Ryanair passengers to Liverpool and to Leeds, adding: "We want those passengers back to fly here from Manchester."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14123466

[charlie]

Is this the beginning of the end for LPL with Ryanair announcement of expansion of MAN leaves LPL looking backwards,coupled with EZY reducing based aircraft,what does the future hold for LPL?This should be of great concern to us all.MAN will not be satisfied until LPL is just a backwater airport like we were in the 80s,especially with the comments from their Chief Op officer,this is typical of the mnagement of MAN whose sole aim is to destroy LPL to those who think otherwise I implore you to open your eyes and not bury your heads in the sand

[Biggles]

Only O`leary could relate the return iof RYR to Manchester as relighting sexual relations between RYR and the airport. ? He did mention his intention to remain at Lpl, but I recall my wife telling me she did not want a divorce, but she lied.
One route noticed was Manc - Dublin ?

[LPL]

I am hearing they are giving incentives to move routes out of LPL to MAN.

Since it was rumoured (and up to today) that MAN was getting FR , WW have said they are to move out, Monarch are going down market, Thomas Cook have said they are reviewing its UK ops, Jet2 are being targetted by FR and has around half its routes from MAN duplicated (or near duplicated) by FR, EZY are fuming with the airports managers and not forgetting them being named by MOL and flybe wont be ecstatic at the announcement either.

[danairamb]

his is typical of the mnagement of MAN whose sole aim is to destroy LPL to those who think otherwise I implore you to open your eyes and not bury your heads in the sand

A little dramatic I think. While I certainly believe that those who operate MAN puts its own needs first and could care less about the future of LPL, I don't believe their sole aim is to destroy LPL. If this was the case I think they would belong in a psychiatric institution and not as senior management of an airport.

The reality is that LPL does not and cannot compete with MAN on an equal basis - it never has. The rapid growth that occurred at LPL was because at the time of the rise of the LCC, MAN did not need the business - now they do. LPL needs to be creative and come up with new ways to keep the business they have, paranoia about "the sole aim" of MAN's management being to destroy LPL, does not help.

[steh]

Jul 12, 2011 22:48:57 GMT 1 charlie said:

Is this the beginning of the end for LPL with Ryanair announcement of expansion of MAN leaves LPL looking backwards,coupled with EZY reducing based aircraft,what does the future hold for LPL?This should be of great concern to us all.MAN will not be satisfied until LPL is just a backwater airport like we were in the 80s,especially with the comments from their Chief Op officer,this is typical of the mnagement of MAN whose sole aim is to destroy LPL to those who think otherwise I implore you to open your eyes and not bury your heads in the sand

I really do fear easyjet or ryanair will pull out of Liverpool completely by 2013. Apart from trying to entice more carriers in (perhaps those annoyed by Ryanair moving into Manchester), Liverpool needs to make flying from there a much more pleasurable experience. For a local like me I will always use it and make allowances, but anybody who could just as easily get to Manchester and has no sense of loyalty is always going to be put off by the security queues and immigration delays.

[LPL]

Jul 12, 2011 23:22:43 GMT 1 steh said:

Jul 12, 2011 22:48:57 GMT 1 charlie said:

Is this the beginning of the end for LPL with Ryanair announcement of expansion of MAN leaves LPL looking backwards,coupled with EZY reducing based aircraft,what does the future hold for LPL?This should be of great concern to us all.MAN will not be satisfied until LPL is just a backwater airport like we were in the 80s,especially with the comments from their Chief Op officer,this is typical of the mnagement of MAN whose sole aim is to destroy LPL to those who think otherwise I implore you to open your eyes and not bury your heads in the sand

I really do fear easyjet or ryanair will pull out of Liverpool completely by 2013. Apart from trying to entice more carriers in (perhaps those annoyed by Ryanair moving into Manchester), Liverpool needs to make flying from there a much more pleasurable experience. For a local like me I will always use it and make allowances, but anybody who could just as easily get to Manchester and has no sense of loyalty is always going to be put off by the security queues and immigration delays.

If you have a chance to hear Craig Richmond speak, take it.

Your concerns there above will be addressed by him.

[steh]

What annoys me more than anything isnt the fact Ryanair have gone there, they can go where they want and theres plenty of other places in UK and Europe where they operate from 2 places 30-40 miles apart, if opening a base there doesnt reduce capacity at Liverpool I cant really say I'm bothered.

Whats galling is the chief operating officer of Manchester airport going on regional news smiling and not saying something along the lines of "this will give passengers in the north west more choices" but instead "we've lost passengers to Liverpool and Leeds and we want them back" as behind the scenes she backstabbingly offers inducements to airlines to reduce Liverpool operations. The BBC were revelling in it, years ago Manchester laughed at Liverpool for being a lo-cost airport, now its major news that they are becoming one with the BBC lovingly reporting the fact this will create jobs for Manchester and increase visitors there, but which will more than likely be at a detriment to our city, which it is supposed to cover equally.

[baldyman26]

Whats galling is the chief operating officer of Manchester airport going on regional news smiling and not saying something along the lines of "this will give passengers in the north west more choices" but instead "we've lost passengers to Liverpool and Leeds and we want them back" as behind the scenes she backstabbingly offers inducements to airlines to reduce Liverpool operations. The BBC were revelling in it, years ago Manchester laughed at Liverpool for being a lo-cost airport, now its major news that they are becoming one with the BBC lovingly reporting the fact this will create jobs for Manchester and increase visitors there, but which will more than likely be at a detriment to our city, which it is supposed to cover equally. [/quote]


You are right, it wasn't nice to hear, but for years, and we have said this before, Liverpool Airport management have on the outside anyway lived in the bubble that nobody can burst until now. We may be jumping the gun, but it does seem that the writing is on the wall, however remember it only takes one little thing to upset o'leary, he may not "love" manchester for too long, oh and turning up in a Man city kit, what the hell was that about...Lets face it, the management at LPL need to pull their finger out. In my opinion, too much money has been spent to let it go down the pan. You don't build car parks and hotels on the basis of 2 airlines, so there are either bigger plans than we know in the pipeline, or we could end up with a massive white elephant.

[davel]

Don't get too paranoid with these developments, Ryanair and MAN will not be easy partners. There are a lot of local people still using MAN and also many passengers prefer to use a smaller airport. The catchments of both airports overlap and many people can use either airport. The main problem is that MAN has a lot of spare money and may use some to encourage operators to expand, LPL has no money to spare and the Canadians seem to keep a tight reign on what is available. We are not helped by the continuing decline in fortunes of the other two airports in the group which is a strain on the purse strings. We have just got to provide an airport where people want to fly from and that means spending money on the passengers comforts. Long queues at immigration do not help especially in the winter when you may be queuing outside in the cold.
On the positive side we may see Monarch here and Flybe, I hear, maybe interested in the Eastern routes.

[Biggles]

The management at LPJL should be having sleepless nights after seeing this and hearing what was saidin defence of getting px to return to. mcr. Liverpool seems to continually live with the promise of developments under a master plan! Brilliant plan if new hotels and car parks and time consuming developments of the structure occurs whilst airlines are being tempted to leave.

[delta154]

There seems to be a few posts where emotions and local pride are getting in the way of logic here, so here comes a small dose of reality:

Whats galling is the chief operating officer of Manchester airport going on regional news smiling and not saying something along the lines of "this will give passengers in the north west more choices" but instead "we've lost passengers to Liverpool and Leeds and we want them back" as behind the scenes she backstabbingly offers inducements to airlines to reduce Liverpool operations

Firstly, it seems to be fine and dandy when LPL takes MAN's traffic. Theres applause, congratulations and calls of 'lets have more'. Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, its amazing how quickly opinions change, and all of a sudden, its a case of 'backtstanning' and 'just plain wrong' that MAN dare steal LPL's traffic.
Lets not forget when Ryanair publicly stated LPL/LBA would be getting MAN's traffic when they pulled out last time. Where were your cries of backstabbing then? Oh no, you all thought it was great news!
What needs to be remembered here, and right down to basics, is that MAN and LPL are businesses, not just there to boost peoples ego's. They will do whatever it takes to get services at their own airport.
Do you think for one second if LPL had the money to do what MAN is doing they wouldnt steal MAN's flights? Get real!

On the positive side we may see Monarch here

Do you honestly expect Monarch, whos biggest base is Manchester, who has a maintence hangar at MAN, just about to move to a new terminal, has been in MAN longer than I care to remember move over to LPL just because Ryanair moves in on some of its sun routes!
Monarch have had competition in its ALC's, PMI's, AGP's and so on almost as long as its been at MAN! Im pretty sure that, whilst added competition is always one to keep an eye on, they will not be having sleepless nights just yet.
Also, Monarch have just negotiated a cheaper deal with MAN, due to them having to use hard stands for the first departure wave at T2, so, they are pretty happy at the moment.

[richard]

Apologies for injecting some realism into the debate in amongst all the paranoia.

Has anyone looked at the current list of LPL Ryanair destinations compared to the announced MAN list? There are 41 at LPL, and 26 at MAN, of which 12 are to be operated from both airports. However 9 of these are among the most popular UK sun destinations (plus Dublin, a special case), and are served from many regional airports so will most likely co-exist at LPL and MAN quite happily apart from possibly minor frequency adjustments. There are only 3 routes that I'm doubtful could support dual operations (Rome, Milan Bergamo and Oslo - though not clear which of Torp or Rygge will be the MAN destination).

Ryanair appear to be doing the same as EZY as regard MAN v LPL, which is with a few exceptions creating complementary bases. This will be influenced by different demographics locally to each airport, and competition from other carriers. They are also a business, and if they can trade off the 2 airports against one another to get a better deal they will. However they also won't want to damage one successful operation in an attempt to build another one up.

So what if the MAN CEO made remarks about getting MAN locals to head for MAN instead of LPL/LBA as a result of all this. What did you expect her to say? That those nice folks at LPL don't get as many pax as we do so we are happy to share? She'd get laughed out of her job! Ironically many on here express exactly the same sentiment when they hear of LPL locals heading to MAN to take flights (for example LPL football flights being run from MAN)!

As for MAN aggressively targeting LPL airlines - I think you'll find they are aggressively targeting airlines generally who might want to fly from MAN. EZY and RYR are 2 of the biggest players, and so to ignore them just because they already fly from LPL would be ludicrous.

There will be ups and downs for both EZY and RYR at MAN and LPL, and who knows when O'Leary's next hissy fit will come along, but in general as the UK economy recovers you can expect that in 3-4 years time both MAN and LPL will have more RYR and EZY aircraft based than they do now. Routes will come and go over that period, but the general trend for both will be up. Until the next recession of course....

[JPX]

As an occasional user of both airports, and both easyJet and Ryanair, I think that it has to be accepted that both airlines will operate from both airports as long as there is passenger demand. Basic economics!

The key issue for LPL now must be to get back to where it was a few years ago in terms of customer appeal - i.e. make the process as hassle free and reliable as possible. Many customers like me just want something that works - and will choose between Liverpool and Manchester on that basis.

[steh]

Jul 13, 2011 11:05:00 GMT 1 @delta154 said:

Firstly, it seems to be fine and dandy when LPL takes MAN's traffic. Theres applause, congratulations and calls of 'lets have more'. Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, its amazing how quickly opinions change, and all of a sudden, its a case of 'backtstanning' and 'just plain wrong' that MAN dare steal LPL's traffic.
Lets not forget when Ryanair publicly stated LPL/LBA would be getting MAN's traffic when they pulled out last time. Where were your cries of backstabbing then? Oh no, you all thought it was great news!


On the positive side we may see Monarch here

Do you honestly expect Monarch, whos biggest base is Manchester, who has a maintence hangar at MAN, just about to move to a new terminal, has been in MAN longer than I care to remember move over to LPL just because Ryanair moves in on some of its sun routes!
Monarch have had competition in its ALC's, PMI's, AGP's and so on almost as long as its been at MAN! Im pretty sure that, whilst added competition is always one to keep an eye on, they will not be having sleepless nights just yet.
Also, Monarch have just negotiated a cheaper deal with MAN, due to them having to use hard stands for the first departure wave at T2, so, they are pretty happy at the moment.

Between 1997 and 2006 Manchesters passenger numbers rose from from 15.9m to 22.2m. There was growth every year except 2002. During the same period Liverpool's rose from 0.6m to 5.4m. Since 2007, passengers have fallen at Manchester to 17.7m last year, a drop of about 20%, in the same period Liverpool's dropped from 5.4m to 5.0m, a drop of 7%.

If Manchester is being robbed of passengers, Liverpool isnt guilty. No passengers were being stolen from anywhere during the period of growth and in the period of fall they certainly arent transferring to Liverpool. Manchester feels it has a divine right to have all of the slices of the cake even though Liverpool is as convenient or much more convenient for many of those within an hours drive of Manchester.