BMA Route swap.

[Samba]

Help.
Can anyone remember the 2 BMA Viscounts that positioned in to start service the next morning following the route swap with
BA in 78,researching for a BMA Story next month.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bob O'Brien.

[viscount]

Had a look at the detailed article Tony Williams wrote in MAS 'Flypast' (p.293 Nov 1978) and in the Visiting Aircraft Log books for the period.

The hand-over was on a Saturday night/Sunday morning - so the first day of operation required less flights/aircraft than a weekday schedule. On the Saturday Viscount 813 G-AZLT arrived at 1748 and DC-9-14 OH-LYB at 1809, both from East Midlands. The DC-9 had been withdrawn from the Belfast-Gatwick route on Friday evening and had called at EMA for a wash and for the application of the name 'Merseyside'.

On the Sunday (29th October 1978), fog at Heathrow delayed the intended departure of the DC-9, so the first BMA Liverpool schedule to operate was BD011 to Ronaldsway at 0755, operated by G-AZLT. The DC-9 eventually got off to Heathrow at 0925, near two hours late on BD381, two minutes before G-AZLT returned from IoM on BD012. Later in the day G-AZLP positioned in from EMA at 2018, followed by G-AZLR from EMA at 2110. So for the Monday morning schedule BMA was up to strength for the first departures with 3 Viscounts and the DC-9-14 on station. On the Monday it would appear that G-AZLT operated to EMA-Brussels-Frankfurt; OH-LYB to LHR with G-AZLP and G-AZLR sharing the IoM, Belfast and Dublin services.

The departing BA aircraft were: G-AOYR which left for the IoM at 1756 as BE5426, with Viscount 806 G-AOYG from IoM and positioned out for Birmingham at 1855 as BE9601P and the last BA Liverpool scheduled flight, BAC-111-400 G-AWBL which operated in on BE5428 from Heathrow landing at 2126, positioning for Cardiff at 2202. These were on the Saturday. Departing on the Sunday were Viscount 806s G-AOYN at 1153 for Cardiff and G-AOYJ for Birmingham at 1226. Viscounts G-AOYN and G-AOYJ performed a fly-by of the Tower before setting course, so ending some 30 years of continuous operation by BEA/Cambrian/BA at Liverpool Airport.

[Samba]

Thanks Brian,brilliant !.
Bob.

[danairamb]

I hadn't realized that the British Airways flights still used BE as a flight prefix, rather than BA, but this would make sense as I believe that back then British Airways was still divided into European and Overseas Division.

[calflier]

Nov 1, 2014 22:51:30 GMT 1 danairamb said:

I hadn't realized that the British Airways flights still used BE as a flight prefix, rather than BA, but this would make sense as I believe that back then British Airways was still divided into European and Overseas Division.

Think its a typo,the flights were using the BA prefix at that time,but earlier on when BA took over British air services,IE Cambrian and Northeast it was BZ for all LPL flights callsign Albion,this then changes around 74 I think to BA and callsign Speedbird,BE has not been used for LPL flights since the BEA/Cambrian route swop whenever that was,early sixties or earlier,hope that helps.

[viscount]

The use of 'BE' as a flight designator comes from the original hand written transcription of the ATC Tower Logs Sheets at that time.

However, to confuse the issue further, I note from my own 'Passenger Flight' Log Book, during April 1975 on CS843/842 f&t Dublin. On 2.8.77 I flew on BZ624 'Albion 624' Liverpool to Dublin (with Capt. Vernon flying). On 29.07.78 on BE744 a Trident 2e Heathrow-Cologne and BA202 a Super VC-10 13.8.78 Dusseldorf-Heathrow.

[calflier]

Nov 2, 2014 18:40:30 GMT 1 viscount said:

The use of 'BE' as a flight designator comes from the original hand written transcription of the ATC Tower Logs Sheets at that time.

However, to confuse the issue further, I note from my own 'Passenger Flight' Log Book, during April 1975 on CS843/842 f&t Dublin. On 2.8.77 I flew on BZ624 'Albion 624' Liverpool to Dublin (with Capt. Vernon flying). On 29.07.78 on BE744 a Trident 2e Heathrow-Cologne and BA202 a Super VC-10 13.8.78 Dusseldorf-Heathrow.

Its possible flight plans for ATC,were still using BE,but all reservations at that time,were on the BABS system(British airways booking system)and BA was being used,I know they kept the two designations BE/BZ but did not use them for flight numbers,but maybe flight planning?used them,maybe someone who worked for BA,at that time can advise?

[viscount]

Nope, sorry "Calflier" but on this one you are wrong.

I have in front of me my used passenger ticket stub for my summer 1978 BA flights. The ticket is BA stock, the final carbon impression is clear enough to be certain that the flight number provided to the passenger was BE744 outbound London-Cologne by Trident (a former BEA route), and BA202 on the Super VC-10 Dusseldorf-Heathrow two weeks later (the flight was a former BOAC route which commenced in the Middle East). Oh, and the cost £87.00 for the return ticket - in those days, all taxes (none stated) included! Ticket issued by British Airways, Liverpool 18 JUN 78.

With absolute certainty as the facts are on the table in front of me, I can state that in summer 1978 both BE and BA IATA prefixes were in use for passenger ticketing and service flight numbers. You are are possibly right though that BZ (call-sign 'Albion') was used 'airside only' for former Cambrian and BKS services after 1972 merger in BA. Certainly for flights in 1973 and 1975 I have CS (ie former Cambrian route, operated by British Air Services) recorded as my passenger flight number, not either BZ or BA. Anyone else know better, as I cannot quickly locate my 1977 ticket, which I record as a BZ prefix flight, even though I probably have them still.

Looking in my 1979 transcriptions of the ATC Tower Logs for the MAS, all BA flights, internal, European and Intercontinental used the BA prefix (which includes December 1978).

[calflier]

Nov 2, 2014 20:56:08 GMT 1 viscount said:

Nope, sorry "Calflier" but on this one you are wrong.

I have in front of me my used passenger ticket stub for my summer 1978 BA flights. The ticket is BA stock, the final carbon impression is clear enough to be certain that the flight number provided to the passenger was BE744 outbound London-Cologne by Trident (a former BEA route), and BA292 on the Super VC-10 Dusseldorf-Heathrow two weeks later (the flight was a former BOAC route which commenced in the Middle East). Oh, and the cost £87.00 for the return ticket - in those days, all taxes (none stated) included! Ticket issued by British Airways, Liverpool 18 JUN 78.

With absolute certainty as the facts are on the table in front of me, I can state that in summer 1978 both BE and BA IATA prefixes were in use for passenger ticketing and service flight numbers. You are are possibly right though that BZ (call-sign 'Albion') was used 'airside only' for former Cambrian and BKS services after 1972 merger in BA. Certainly for flights in 1973 and 1975 I have CS (ie former Cambrian route, operated by British Air Services) recorded as my passenger flight number, not either BZ or BA. Anyone else know better, as I cannot quickly locate my 1977 ticket, which I record as a BZ prefix flight, even though I probably have them still.

Looking in my 1979 transcriptions of the ATC Tower Logs for the MAS, all BA flights, internal, European and Intercontinental used the BA prefix (which includes December 1978).

Looks like you have all the evidence,I thought the BE prefix had disppeared by then,so its nice to say you flew BE, rather than BA,nice touch.
Calflier.by the way the Albion callsigns only used the last three numbers.with the first number 4 I think persumably there for reservations reasons.
cALFLIER