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Post by Proflyer on Dec 9, 2015 18:00:11 GMT 1
Or I could say, tell me would rather see 3-4 daily ATRs full, or an empty A320 that stops because the it's not viable?
The truth is, on such a short sector like LPL-DUB the difference in air time between the ATR and an A320 will be less than a few minutes, and I doubt joe-public would notice the difference. The seat costs of the ATR are very economical and a 70 seat aircraft is ideal for this medium frequency route.
With the long haul growth at DUB next year, then the connection possibilities grow, but the pressure on EI mainline to use their A320s as profitably as possible makes me think its better suited to the ATR.
I fly the ATR, so I know it well, and I also know that Aer Lingus Regional (EIR) compete VERY successfully with FR on the EDI, GLA, NCL, BRS, EMA, LBA routes, and alongside EI on MAN and BHX
I made the comment in response to reports of poor loads, and I think you need to play to the strengths, in my experience most people don't care what the aircraft is, and don't even realise till they board it.
Of course, if they're getting 80% plus loads on the A320 then excellent, long may it continue, I'm just not sure they are ...
Finally,t the new 600s (of which EIR are taking delivery of 2 more) are exceptional aircraft, as quiet as a jet, spacious and get excellent feedback, so yes I stand by my comment that I think this very sort sector would be best suited to EIR
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Post by calflier on Dec 9, 2015 18:14:28 GMT 1
Aer Lingus know their business,and I am sure that they expected a slow start,I have to admit,that probably along with everybody else,expected that they would come in with the regional product,but they didnt,they came in the the 320,so dont lets knock it!.they feel they have a route worth developing,Ive supported them already and hope to do again very soon,both to Dublin and beyond,its a very good product!
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Post by kuefc09 on Dec 9, 2015 19:24:44 GMT 1
Didn't realise the route was doing poorly?
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Post by eye2eye5 on Dec 9, 2015 19:36:32 GMT 1
I haven't seen any reports to suggest it is.
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Post by ametyst on Dec 9, 2015 19:37:11 GMT 1
I have now flown four times between Liverpool and Dublin recently and on each flight the loads were in excess of 80%. I flew on a Monday and a Tuesday so hardly the peak for football traffic.
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Post by LPL on Dec 9, 2015 19:55:22 GMT 1
You see this is were people get the not very accurate impression and it turns it being gospel.
Last months figures showed passenger figures up about 51k with 11k being accounted for from Belfast. Granted not all the other 40k came from Aer Lingus but a good number will have done. It could just be that EI expected more interlining than they are getting.
Further evidence of impressions becoming the norm that are not backed up by facts is a series of posts on another forum by someone who also posts on here claiming the EZY LPL to Gibraltar route failed due to 'poor passenger numbers'.
My figures for that route show that from March 2011 to the end of that year the route returned a load factor of 80%.
The figures from January 2012 up to the end of August 2012 (which is as far as my stats go at present) shows the route at 86% load factor. If I strip out the start of the year and just use the months from May to to August then that shows a load factor of 94%!
But now this 'poor loads' is being repeated its taken on a life of its own and has become 'gospel' with the facts proving otherwise.
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Post by railwayboy on Dec 10, 2015 23:09:53 GMT 1
Just looking at Twitter I noticed a photo from someone flying '2 days ago' so a guess Tuesday morning flight from Dublin and the plane was 'empty' with a photo showing 3 seats free and the seats in front and behind show one person sat in each. I'm not sure if that makes sense but out of 9 seats it shows 2 taken. I remember a large passenger traffic increase last month Dublin to Liverpool and assume they can't all be using Ryanair - I sincerely hope they remain on the route, hoping to fly to America later next year.
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Post by ronturner on Dec 11, 2015 8:18:58 GMT 1
Most airline operators are clever enough to make a right decision for them, and if not to change things. For my money the ATR, especially the new one, is a fine aircraft for a I hour flight and most people would make a choice of Airline/Time/Connectivity over aircraft type. Spain or Greece. That's another story.
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Post by 8miles27 on Dec 16, 2015 18:18:54 GMT 1
Provisional CAA statistics for November (first full month of EI and RYR with four daily rotations) show 43228 pax used the Dublin route giving an overall load factor of 64%. The pax figure is up 20K on 2014 and up 10K on October. EI seats available were 23664.
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Post by Proflyer on Dec 21, 2015 13:15:07 GMT 1
OK, So I didn't intend to alarm people with my earlier comment, it was just a casual 'I think this is better suited to regional' type thought.
Personally, I thikn having the EI presence and the connectivity is important and as people said, the ATR72-600 is an outstanding aircraft and for a sector LPL-DUB it will be a time difference of <5 mins compared to the airbus.
Anyway, EI are still there and it's developing and I hope it continues either with mainline, or EIR …
Don't forget regional have had 2 brand new aircraft delivered from ATR this month ...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 14:29:08 GMT 1
This is a very important point and one we made constantly when were up against jets on the same sector with the 748. Boeing in particular would make the point that people don't like flying in propeller-driven aircraft, but when we did a survey on this, 60% of passengers didn't even notice! I won't even begin to discuss the difference in fuel burn...
I think most people are more concerned with on-time departures and safety than whether the propeller is encased in a fairing or not.
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Post by wirralspotter09 on Dec 21, 2015 16:30:47 GMT 1
Or I could say, tell me would rather see 3-4 daily ATRs full, or an empty A320 that stops because the it's not viable? The truth is, on such a short sector like LPL-DUB the difference in air time between the ATR and an A320 will be less than a few minutes, and I doubt joe-public would notice the difference. The seat costs of the ATR are very economical and a 70 seat aircraft is ideal for this medium frequency route. With the long haul growth at DUB next year, then the connection possibilities grow, but the pressure on EI mainline to use their A320s as profitably as possible makes me think its better suited to the ATR. I fly the ATR, so I know it well, and I also know that Aer Lingus Regional (EIR) compete VERY successfully with FR on the EDI, GLA, NCL, BRS, EMA, LBA routes, and alongside EI on MAN and BHX I made the comment in response to reports of poor loads, and I think you need to play to the strengths, in my experience most people don't care what the aircraft is, and don't even realise till they board it. Of course, if they're getting 80% plus loads on the A320 then excellent, long may it continue, I'm just not sure they are ... Finally,t the new 600s (of which EIR are taking delivery of 2 more) are exceptional aircraft, as quiet as a jet, spacious and get excellent feedback, so yes I stand by my comment that I think this very sort sector would be best suited to EIR Of course this has little to do with passenger figures but the problem you have with the ATR is its ability to cope in poor weather, taking this winter as an example many of the flights were cancelled, on some occasions all were but on most of them the smaller aircraft such as Dash 8's and ATR's were unable to fly whereas A320's/737's were
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Post by Proflyer on Dec 21, 2015 17:29:46 GMT 1
Actually if you look at Dublin recently in the cross winds, it was Ryanair who cancelled first with the 737s - yes Stobart cancelled around the same time but for a day, not a single Ryanair aircraft operated through Dublin….
Most aircraft have crosswind limits of between 30-35 knots, the ATR is 35 on a dry runway, 28 on a wet. The 737 is similar.
the wind can be significantly stronger than this so long as it's not directly across the runway and as most airports (with BHX and LBA being exceptions that come to mind) the runway is built into the prevailing wind so it becomes much less of an issue.
If you look at the days lost throughout a year you will find it is in single figures and isn't really a consideration…
I do understand the glamour and sex appeal of a shiny A320, but its commercial reality that matters.
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Post by sfp on Dec 21, 2015 21:09:56 GMT 1
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Post by calflier on Dec 21, 2015 21:42:19 GMT 1
Good article,I note one of the selling points for using Dublin,as a hub,is free WiFi,so how about it in LPL,too Mr Cornish please!
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