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Post by alexmac on Jul 28, 2011 12:20:21 GMT 1
It is a problem, not just 'where' the aircraft are based but the protocols now behind trying to get an aircraft to lift when you need it at a job. When Merseyside controlled their own aircraft, crews at Woodvale monitored primary talk groups for any on going jobs they could assist with, or a simple call from the DCR to the Ops manager could get XM11 airborne in minutes. Now, other forces are not routinely monitoring and calls must go to the regional ASU control room for the request to lift to then be directed to the crews at the respective bases, thus meaning a several minute delay.
Delta 66 went to a job earlier in the week in Croxteth after a notable delay...
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Post by Biggles on Jul 28, 2011 15:55:27 GMT 1
If you read the politically correct drivel in the link DG started this thread with from the police supt and police comittee member people about how wonderful and effective this will be you should despair.
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Post by alexmac on Jul 28, 2011 17:41:11 GMT 1
It gets better... only one servicable this morning!
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Post by RICEY on Jul 28, 2011 19:11:55 GMT 1
Dealta 66 come from Hawarden Wales/Chester and is the Cheshire ASU.
thats great isnt it Alex. 5 forces relying on one
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Post by thorpster on Jul 28, 2011 19:37:23 GMT 1
huge number of useless civvy posts Biggles, I think the above statement is a tad harsh mate. Police forces up and down the country would cease to operate effectively without 'civvy' staff. The uniformed bobbies would spend the majority of the time sat behind a desk (like me) doing necessary paperwork. The 'civvy' element do the mundane but necessary stuff that enables the police officer to do his/her job on the street. Like other people have stated, the deterent value of the helicopter just being on the doorstep was huge. It really didn't need to even be in the air. The fact it was there was enough. That is why so many people have attempted to destroy it over the years. Just had to get that off my chest. Yours. A useless civvy member of police staff.
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Post by Biggles on Jul 28, 2011 23:05:33 GMT 1
Thankfully I joined the Police Force in the 1960`s when it worked. sadly over nearly 30 years service I watched it decay from a Force to a Politically correctly named Police Service (which it clearly fails to achieve in most cases) I can quote numerous incidents from personal experience if my dealings with my local "service provider" One of the worst moves was to remove trained police officers with years of front-line experience and replace them with uniformed civvy radio operators who can not think like a trained and experienced police officers ever. If I hear anyone else mention the word "prioritise" I will scream. You only do that when you don`t have the resources available. It seems to me now that nearly all the old well trained officers have or are about to retire and we are being left with many well educated degree holders who have completed accelerated fast track promotion schemes and some who had been so useless as a front-line officer but just kept getting promoted to get them out of the way, now they have floated to or near the top and still can not make proper decisions about best use of resources to maximise what they have available. Now I see an idea that high ranking ex military officers are recruited at high rank directly as management within police areas ? All this is malignant and will continue to destroy law and order even further.
I already see Highways Agency Motor Patrols parked for hours as they have mileage restrictions placed on them ? I have stop now on grounds of health I think as me and ex collegues get depressed seeing what is happening to the job.
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Post by thorpster on Jul 29, 2011 19:17:59 GMT 1
Biggles. Good to hear you have done your 30 years as a police officer. I work with one who has done the same and come back (for his sins) as a 'civvy.' Red tape seems to get ever more prevalent and it depresses me also. I have done a fair few years myself now and am saddened to think that people out there, especially ex-serving police officers, feel that civilian staff are 'useless.' That mentality will never form a positive image of a police service that is there to serve everyone. It is not our fault the way policing has changed. I would like to think that my ample service has not been to waste. Yours still feeling saddened.
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Post by alexmac on Jul 30, 2011 0:26:50 GMT 1
I for one appreciate your efforts Thorpster...and I sit inside the wire. Civvies in the likes of the FIU and DCRs allow greater number of feet on the ground than if they were wholly manned by cons. At the end of the day, public confidence in the police is at a low and a priority therefore is to increase public confidence by providing a higher visibility presence than before. By allowing civvies to fulfil duties that would once have been the job of a police officer allows this HVP to take place. I don't think you can class all civvies and their posts as useless - yes there are useless civvies and irrelevant posts, but then again, there are useless police officers... It's the same in the military. You'd be hard pushed to go onto a RN/RAF station or even single Sqn and not find a civvie...
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Post by thorpster on Jul 31, 2011 12:06:02 GMT 1
Thanks alexmac. Nicely put. Cheers!
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Post by harbourcotter on Jul 31, 2011 13:29:23 GMT 1
Without getting into the rather spurious 'civvy' issue, the problem remains at the lack of air cover for merseyside. When the issue of merged aircraft was first mooted, it was 100 per cent certain that merseyside would lose cover, even though it was probably the most utilised aircraft of the north west Police forces, its a political decision at the end of the day. Remember that the Police Authority are politicians first, and ALL recent Governments have been prioritising North West infrastructure on Manchester alone as part of a National Policy, which appears to be adhered to by all parties, so these sorts of decisons are very obvious to predict.
As previously mentioned by others, if XM11 was already airbourne, they would assist in other 'jobs' going on in the Force which would not necessarily be important enough for XM11 to solely lift for. This 'additional' service was appreciated and is now lost.
I have noticed a drop in requests for the helicopter now. (although this may only be temporary). In the only 2 occassions that I am personally aware of a request, one was denied and the other request was given a '25 minute' response for the next available Helo which was in North Wales, which needless to say was too long to be of use.
Merseyside usage of Helicopter support will decrease further and will only be used for the most serious of crimes and cross-border incidents and even then only if their 'home' forces are not utilising them at the time.
Its a pity, but there is zero chance of the decision being revoked.
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Post by spotter27 on Aug 3, 2011 8:30:30 GMT 1
02:20 to 02:46 Circling and hovering near my home in St Helens, while a police car drove in circles for the whole time (Fleet Lane, Ashtons Green Drive, Derbyshire Hill Road, Swan Avenue). Did they catch anyone? It certainly didn't look like it.
What a waste of money - and our sleep time!
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Post by Biggles on Aug 3, 2011 16:40:09 GMT 1
Only a waste of time and money had those officers chosen to keep you and your neighbours awake for a laugh and not as a result of a genuine reason for being there.
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