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Post by dibleysdog on Nov 26, 2013 17:55:49 GMT 1
Thought Eastern were another of those airlines that"scurried off",maybe best hope is Easy.
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steh
Full Member
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Post by steh on Nov 26, 2013 19:39:50 GMT 1
It's just a guess but I think the "not viable" bit is possibly to avoid any contract penalties should they walk away. Fly be have wanted away from Liverpool ever since they came here. Presumably they couldn't just walk away, but if they cut the route along with others, maybe that is the business case they have to prove to avoid paying back some of the subsidy. Which would be a fair enough explanation if it were not for the fact Flybe fly 12000 passengers between Manchester and IOM on 4 rotations a day, and 10500 between Liverpool and IOM on 3 rotations a day. www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/are-isle-of-man-flights-and-base-under-threat-by-flybe-job-losses-1-6241934
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Post by supertramp on Nov 26, 2013 20:30:08 GMT 1
We have had bad experiences with flybe in the pastand now they are doing it again. Are we rearlly surprised by this,good riddance i say.Liverpool JL deserves better.
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Post by charlie on Nov 27, 2013 0:23:01 GMT 1
I hate airlines like fly be there nothing but charlatans who have used LPL they put nothing in and try and take everything out I hope airlines like them fail,I love this airport and this city but fly be deserve nothing from any of us their only interest is Manchester,I'm not knocking MAN but they always come out smelling of roses,yes we can talk of the economics of moving to MAN and being based there but they never give LPL a chance and it stinks,MAN is not the golden cow and I do hope those airlines that pull out of here fail yes I am bitter I'm bitter that they think Liverpool is a backwater and at the first sign of trouble they head off down to Manchester ,we deserve better from these airlines Norwegian are another,it just makes my blood boil ,is MAN such a safety net?We need airlines with commitment to this area who believe in this city,and above all stay here and not run off to MAN at the first sign of trouble
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Post by viscount on Nov 27, 2013 1:18:24 GMT 1
A highly passionate post. A few comments if I may.
If FlyBe (why do posters have so much difficulty getting the name right?) are such charlatan fly-by-night outfit, dedicated purely to Manchester, then why did they invest so much effort in 2005 to develop a whole network of routes from Liverpool: Belfast City, Jersey, Southampton, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Exeter, competing against themselves from MAN? True all had ceased by late 2007. But all power to Flybe for at least having a go. Isle of Man to Liverpool has operated since the very end of March 2008, FlyBe returning to Liverpool, hardly running away at the first sign of trouble (if that was the case they would have pulled off when EasyJet started in competition). By all accounts the airline is in serious trouble over costs exceeding income on domestic air routes, in such circumstances it is considered sound business practice to consolidate back to your main bases, Manchester is one, Isle of Man was, Liverpool is not. Fact.
You appear to consider that Liverpool is the only airport that has airlines expand into, only to witness a retreat to their main hubs and that airlines have it in for us deliberately. Manchester too has more than their share of such treatment, consider the route developments and withdrawals by BA, Aer Lingus (I'm going back to the 80s? here) or Qantas amongst others. In Liverpool terms, back in late 1997, many gave EasyJet a year before they retreated to Luton - how very, very wrong we were! Win some, lose some.
The loss of FlyBe on the Isle of Man to Liverpool is regrettable (by the way is this confirmed fact yet, or still just speculation?) there is a second operator on the route in the form of EasyJet, and no doubt Citywing (was Manx2) are watching the developments to see if there is opportunity to make money on well timed frequent services using smaller aircraft, provided they can compete with EasyJet's loco fare structure.
Calm down Charlie, such raising of blood pressure is hardly worth it. Due to the forcefulness of language in your post, I had to consider long wether to delete it as inflammatory, or answer calmly. There has been much stated on other forum I frequent on the actions of "trolls" deliberately inflaming discussion situations (see the Wikipedia entry), I had to consider if you were acting out of passion or simply stirring things up for a reaction - after all so much passion over an airline's actions is not something aviation enthusiasts are particularly noted for!I. Clearly, you are no "troll", but are a respected member of this forum deserving the courtesy of a measured reply.
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Post by charlie on Nov 27, 2013 9:25:48 GMT 1
thank you for your measured reply viscount,yes im afraid emotion does seem to have got the better of me,I wrote what I did not to stir a hornets nest but out of passion for what I believe,everything about this city its regeneration,development and its future means a lot to me,and seeing airlines walk away from here really gets to me,this airport deserves better,and I will continue to speak out in its defence
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Post by baldyman26 on Nov 27, 2013 10:44:42 GMT 1
A good couple of posts there. Viscount has a point, Flybe have yet to confirm they are pulling out, although they are making the right noises leading us to maybe a premature conclusion but one I think we are all pretty much expecting. When (and if) an airline pulls out of Liverpool the impact is felt far more then at Manchester for instance as we simply don't have the versatility, but lets look at it in the grand scheme of things here. It's 1 airline who I doubt we will ever see expansion from anyway and why should we if their operations are doing well elsewhere, serving one route that historically does well on it's own (see Steh figures above). Who knows what will happen if the door is left open for somebody else to come in. I am sure if the marketing people at Liverpool are doing their job properly, they will be pushing this route like crazy to potential new operators should the need arise.
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Post by LPL on Nov 27, 2013 14:18:27 GMT 1
The only airline that may take over if Flybe left (ignoring an increase of flights from EZY) is maybe Citywing.
However they will need to obtain bigger more modern aiircaft than they have at present to cope with the demand.
If they do come to LPL then maybe we can get them to open up a small UK network from here too.
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Post by LPL on Nov 27, 2013 14:21:14 GMT 1
I hate airlines like fly be there nothing but charlatans who have used LPL they put nothing in and try and take everything out I hope airlines like them fail Looking from the outside in, the number of plans they have drawn up just in the last year or so is classic of a company in a financial mess thrashing about hoping that one of those plans work. Usually when they get into this situation there is now way out.
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Post by ametyst on Nov 27, 2013 17:47:30 GMT 1
Viscount, you are not quite right with Flybe's original network from Liverpool. Flybe did not compete against itself at Manchester.
At the time Flybe (small b)did not operate from Manchester and the services from Liverpool to Edinburgh, Exeter and Glasgow (followed about a year later by Southampton)were discontinued and moved to Manchester as a result of Flybe taking over the BA Connect network from both Birmingham and Manchester.
Onto the present situation. I think it is possible that Flybe may night-stop crews at Isle of Man. It has always been important to the island's travellers that they are able to get off the island first thing in the morning in the event of fog etc.
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Post by ezylpl on Nov 27, 2013 18:05:43 GMT 1
Flybe have not confirmed they are leaving LPL. If easyJet was to get the hospital contract then it could be a blessing as it may require an extra aircraft at LPL as there isn't the capacity at the moment?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 22:31:54 GMT 1
thank you for your measured reply viscount,yes im afraid emotion does seem to have got the better of me,I wrote what I did not to stir a hornets nest but out of passion for what I believe,everything about this city its regeneration,development and its future means a lot to me,and seeing airlines walk away from here really gets to me,this airport deserves better,and I will continue to speak out in its defence ...so you, your family, your friends, your contacts, in fact everyone you know, needs to use LPL more. It is easy to throw bricks and some will claim that loads are better than other airports, but a plane full of £25 tickets is not going to be as successful as an aircraft running at 55% capacity with passengers who have paid £100. This has been the case at LPL. By its own success with RYR and EZY, it has conditioned LPL passengers to expect rock bottom fares. No matter how much people might poo poo that notion and may be able to throw out comparisons showing the inverse comparison, the fact is there has been a race to the bottom at LPL with regard to fares. Falling fares means a drop in yield, means a drop in profitability, means questions get asked about route viability. Flybe has neither the fleet nor the cost base to deliver the fares LPL passengers demand. The same was KLM's problem. If LPL wants to expand and draw in new carriers, and if the airport managements' vision is the same as the enthusiast majority view, the airport will have to re-invent itself, but what airport CEO is going to risk alienating their two main incumbents in the hope of attracting other alternative operators..?
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Post by vctr on Dec 2, 2013 21:39:13 GMT 1
Some news which will no doubt show their intentions for LPL-IOM. They have reversed their decision to close the NQY-LGW route due to a little helping hand from a government subsidy.
Given this news and flybe's apparent attraction to subsidies, perhaps the subsidised LPL-IOM route will stay?
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Post by dibleysdog on Dec 4, 2013 20:46:45 GMT 1
Seems the Liverpool,IOM route is safe ,the latest media release has a list of routes for the chop,no mention of this route.
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Post by lfc84 on Dec 4, 2013 23:12:32 GMT 1
there will be more to announcements....
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