HS 748 Procedure Trainer

[Cityflyer]

Hi,

I wonder if you can provide some assistance in identifying the following 748 nose section that is curently @ Dumfries Aviation Museum : -









Here is a link to it @ Perth
www.flickr.com/photos/wwshack/7411671284/in/set-72157623077943664

It looked to be a Genuine Nose as it looks to have been cut from a whole 748 fuselage. It came from Perth, where it was first noted in 2004 along with another Cockpit section that was marked as an ATP, with both examples being stated as have come from Woodford, although it may have been Chadderton.

The Colours that it is in are similar to that of : -

www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1126326M.jpg

although the colours may not be an indication to its peevious identity.

For those who worked at Woodford were you aware of any 748 or ATP Cockpit Training Aids, and what airframes that they came from?

Production Lists do not provide any real assistance, although there are 17 possible airframes that were scrapped in the UK, although I have not yet researched the Andover's for possible contenders. To date I have managed to rull out 6 , with a further 2 in the process of being rulled out.

Having checked out the cockpit for serial numbers or build numbers of the components that are left I have only been able to find : -

In the side of the cockpit outside: -

and on the back is this number

this may mean something to someone who had it

now for some general shots : -







On the floor there is a handle that may be the Gust Lock, which may give a clue to the origen as the Argentinan machines had a different Gust Locking system to the later 748's that lead to the loss of G-BEKF MSN 1542 @ Lerwick

Now to the serial numbers on the components that are left : -

























This part may be a not have been an original


It in now over to you and all information on 748's is welcome, as if I can eliminate another aircraft I will be closer to finding out the identity of this one!

I thank you for your time, and any assistance that you are able to provide

[avro748]

The item you refer to as possibly being the gust lock, is the emergency hydraulic hand pump handle. The control lock handle was situated on the centre console (missing from the museum cockpit) outboard of the starboard HP cock.

The numbers on your close up photos are component part numbers (2N1605/3, 9T5252, 1S2602 etc) and the numbers prefixed R3 are something to do with the manufacturers Inspection Department.

The nosewheel steering tiller you photographed is of the later type fitted to late production 2A and all 2B. So, I don’t think it will be a ‘780 or 748 series 1 nose section.

On your photo of the lower part of the starboard CB/fuse panel there is some pencil scrawl, which I instantly read as G-EMRD? Since it wasn’t unknown for detachable parts to be swapped during maintenance I was wondering if G-OJEM figured on your list of possible airframes?

Cheers

Shaun

[viscount]

I thought that too initially, however a few shots further on, the same soft pencil shows clearly as GEN R/B - so discounted it.

The topic has also been put up for debate on another forum. It is now clear that the nose section was at Woodford 1990, then Prestwick, before Perth and now Dumfries. This would put it as existing as a just a nose section before G-EMRD.

Your comment regards it likely being a later mark (2A or 2B) also rules out it being G-BEKC, a series 1, broken-up by Dan Air at Manchester in 1989.

[Deleted]

I thought the original procedure trainer was just a mock-up taken from various available parts at the time and not part of a production set, but I couldn't swear to that.
A friend, who was a director of the Dumfries museum, sadly died earlier this year, otherwise he would probably have been able to throw some light on this. How long has it been there, because I don't recall seeing it on my last visit 18 months or so ago?
My initial training was at Woodford (although the sales dept was based at Chadderton at the time), but I can't remember where it was sited. Can you remember, Shaun?

[avro748]

Brian, having had another butchers at the photos I think you are correct about the scrawl being GEN R/B and not G-EMRD.

Just spotted the words ‘Mock up’ on part number 45D11930 which also has a missing fastener. Possibly this and other parts (maybe the latest nosewheel steering tiller) were added to an old airframe to bring it up to the required standard to be useful as a training aid. To add support to this, the third picture from the bottom shows a very corroded bracket (ie no protective treatments) it also looks like it has been gripped in a vice, no self respecting aircraft fitter would offer that item up for a flying aircraft.

Garstonboy, I did the ATP course in February 1991 in the training centre at WNA. I don’t recall seeing any ‘748 training equipment, only a mainly wooden ATP cockpit with bits of cardboard stuck on it!

The more this thread develops the more intriguing it becomes. Sadly, I dont think any of the above discussion has got us any closer the the identity.

Cheers

Shaun

[Deleted]

Garstonboy, I did the ATP course in February 1991 in the training centre at WNA. I don’t recall seeing any ‘748 training equipment, only a mainly wooden ATP cockpit with bits of cardboard stuck on it!

Probably it had been moved or destroyed by then. I left Woodford in '86, so I have no idea what happened after that. Interesting that it looks considerably more substantial than the ATP unit you mention!