Old terminal expansion plans?

[trumpeter]

Where there any plans to re-develop or expand the old north field site (terminal, apron) before operations moved to new site in 80's?

[viscount]

The original 1939 terminal was altered internally and passenger service area expanded several times before the move to the South Airfield and a new terminal building in 1986.

There was redecoration and movement of functions around the building on a number of occasions. One of the larger internal shifts was to place the cafeteria upstairs, so freeing downstairs for departure space (late 70s?). The external look of the building changed little, although the main entrance was modified with a canopy and glass doors (late 60s/early 70s ?).

Biggest expansion externally was to re-locate International Arrivals (with its customs and immigration functions) into Hangar 2. Also single level 'Portacabins' placed between the east wing of the terminal and hangar 2 provided a number of extra departure gates. Put into place some time before the diversions of 1979, they were dismantled after the terminal was closed down.

The apron space was expanded in 1966/67 with three 'finger' aprons extending outwards, later modified to two fingers, one broad, one narrow. After 1982 when the north airfield runways were totally closed, the runways and taxiways could be used for parking, as indeed they had been in 1979 and a few other occasions of peak traffic.

The north airfield site was too restricted to develop for jet airliners. Although the longer runway had been strengthened and extended in the mid 50s and again mid 60s, it was too short for regular jet airliner use. Extension landward was impossible without massive loss of jobs on the Speke industrial estate. Lengthening the runway into the river was not viable due to the sheer amount of infill required. The need for a longer runway to handle jets could only be answered by a completely new runway on agricultural land to the south and connected to the (then) existing facillties by a link-taxiway around the back of Speke Hall.

When the new runway was constructed in 1966, the plan was to follow this immediately with a grand building of mid/late 60s concrete architectural style to the south of the new runway. Although not proceeded with, all developments after then to the 1939 building and apron were considered temporary and stop-gap measures. The move of several miles to beside the long 'new' runway did not happen until 1986 and the 'warehouse' terminal to north of the new runway.

It is interesting to conjecture about what the airport would look like now if the political will (and the especially the necessary funding) had been forthcoming in 1966. Certainly (as Leeds & EMA have found) a 60s/70s building makes a difficult core for expansion. By delaying a new terminal until the mid 80s, Liverpools subsequent (2002) expansion of facilities has probably proved alot easier!

Although a simple question, the answer is complex and hopefully the brief thoughts above is a helpful answer.

For anyone interested in the development of the Airport, Phil Butler's book is highly recommended, nay essential. See details as a page on the www.nwan.co.uk site

[trumpeter]

Thanks indeed Viscount for detailed reply. I had no idea there was plans for a 'concrete terminal'. Do we know if there were any plans, impressions draw up before 'warehouse' came along? I recently found an old pamphlet from mid-80's detailing plans to extend apron along to join the spur, in essence, to use as link to end of runway. Also shows hangers along fuel farm road. The terminal remained the same size though!

[viscount]

Now you've got me thinking. My conclusion is that the 1960's South Airfield Terminal was more an arrow on the map 'Terminal to be built here', than a firm design with artists impressions etc. Without doubt, as a major municipal building, it would have reflected the architectural style and and favoured materials of the time. I suppose that it would have been positioned vaguely in the region where the current ATC tower was built much more recently.

[phb]

Brian, The 1966 proposals for a terminal where sketched out on a plan at the time, more-or-less where the terminal is now. I don't remember any artist's impressions, but there was a plan view of the building. Later there was a more detailed plan of a building connected to a landside car park (sketched by Gordon Sweetapple, who used the concept when he moved to
Manchester - it became their Terminal 1.) PHB

[viscount]

I'm having a little difficulty putting dates to PHBs post. I cannot find a completion date for Manchester's terminal (Now terminal 1), I figure the period 1966-1969. Yet I would put the same dates, maybe even just into the Seventies for Gordon Sweetapple leaving the Liverpool management team. I do stand open to correction, but I would think that the Manchester terminal design/construction was well underway by the time Gordon Sweetapple left Liverpool.

One of the problems here is that there is no published 'roll of honour' list of Liverpool Airport Directors and their Deputies - unless someone has sources/records I've not discovered. While Phil, Graham and I put together a list of Liverpool Airport Directors in the Airport's 75 Anniv. issue of '09/27' (p.33 No.105) many dates are uncertain, let alone details of their Deputies.

[trumpeter]

This could turn out to be an interesting research project! I've had a good look on www-nothing as such re Gordon Sweetapple's impressions etc. It would be interesting to know if the proposed 60's terminal would have been more substantial than the 'warehouse', with perhaps gates rather than patio doors!!

[springy]

I have a Daily Post cutting from Dec 1963 which includes this map of the planned new runway, and shows a blank space which is presumably the site of the proposed 1970 terminal alongside the runway. I don't think there were any plans at this stage.
The new terminal scheme was approved in Feb 1964 as a group of buildings including a new control tower, and would be "geared for future traffic growth". The buildings would be designed "to be readily extended as the demand arose", while the old terminal would become a hotel, restaurant & shopping centre, or a freight terminal


Ken

[springy]

Here are some snaps I took of the old terminal:

Summer 1963 with the main entrance being rebuilt


early 1964 with new main entrance:




and just for good measure, the car park in 1964 with a distant plume of steam from the passing Runcorn/London train!


Ken

[Deleted]

Nice one of the car park. I would have been 7 years old back then but I remember it well. My aunt would park her car and we would run like mad to get to the kiosk at the foot of the balcony steps. Once there we would play for hours whilst waiting for planes to land and take off. When it was open we would be sent to the tuck-shop to buy ice cream or a small (glass) bottle of coke. Oh, what great days they were. Pity we can't have a similar feature on top of the hangars but I suppose it would be too much to ask for it to be added to the new extension. A little short sighted of Peel as I'm sure it would be a much needed money spinner for them.

[trumpeter]

Interesting that no taxiway spur is on this map, perhaps the spur was built with a view to laying an apron from it, since it has a 'dead end'. Certainly the pamphlet I have shows this.....

[viscount]

My memory is that when it was built 'the spur' was refered to as a 'sanitation pan' - an area away from other airfield activity where an aircraft with disease and pests could be isolated (remember this was the '60s). However I've not come across any proof of that memory in recent research. It was probably a feature insisted on by the Dept of whatever as an essential part of a detail new runway design (which would explain why it is not on an initial sketch plan). I've also heard it explained as additional passing space due to the one way at a time restriction of the 'link' taxiway, although personally don't think this is correct.

[davel]

I remember one time when at the aero club in hangar 1 there was a plan of the new runway but it showed it was right up to Baileys lane making the runway 9,000ft long. Was this the original plan and was it shortened to 7,500ft for cost reasons?

[phb]

When 10/28 (now 09/27) was planned, it was 7,000 feet long. At a very late stage it was found that the budget would allow for 7,500 feet to be built within the original estimate that had been made, so it was actually constructed as 7,500 feet. PHB

[dougss]

In the late 60's plans for a new terminal next to 09/27 were on display in Speke Library. The plans showed a rectangular building and, if my memory is correct, the interior had what is now called an Atrium. No piers were shown. Maybe these plans are now in the Central Library or the Liverpool records office.