Old apron capacity

[trumpeter]

Does any know the approx capacity of old apron for medium or large sized jets or props? Could a 747, DC-10 or Tristar park on old apron?
What was the largest aircraft to have parked on the fingers? Finally could the old apron cope with volume of traffic as seen today-I think it could if aircraft where carefully positioned

[jake3]

remember a BOAC 747 on the main apron and a Laker DC10 outside the old international derpartures and also Wardair DC10 outside there as well. So yes they could.

[viscount]

Despite the terminal being designed and built with DH.86Bs and DH.89A Dragon Rapides as the likely largest aircraft in the '30s, with the possibility of DC-2s as the terminal was completed; by the mid 1980s all the Western world's wide bodied passenger aircraft types had parked on the apron, and the passengers processed through the building. Boeing 747, Douglas DC-10, L.1011 Tristar, Boeing 767, Airbus A.300/310. There was even a weekly summer-long series of flights in 1984 by Wardair DC-10s for Toronto which parked on the terminal apron (although by that time passengers were handled in porta-cabin departure gates and No.2 Hangar modified for international flights. Aer Lingus's high capacity Boeing 747, along with BA Tristars, Laker DC-10s and A.300s all appeared on football charter flights through the 70s and into the early 80s. Laker's DC-10s for a while particularly regular on night closure and weather diversion from Manchester. Two widebodies have been on the apron & fingers together eg 2 A.300 of TEA, 2 Tristars of LTU and (I think) 2 A.310s of Martinair - all on football charters.

During the 1979 Manchester strike closures and again in 1980 the wide bodied aircraft were mostly, if not all, parked out on the 26/08 runway of the north airfield. Upto three Jumbos and a total of four or five widebodies at a time on occasions, plus Boeing 707s, Douglas DC-8s and Super VC-10s.

As to the largest aircraft on the fingers, certainly Boeing 767s of Britannia, a British Caledonian DC-10 (photo in the Genair thread of the memories & history section), a A.300 of TEA (photo on A.300 thread) I can recall parked out there and a freighter A.310 of Martinair. Almost certain never a Boeing 747 though (may have been a bit tight on the turning circle for the wide track undercarriage). Boeing 707s and Super VC-10s were frequently to be seen parked out there and Guppy 'Airbus wing' flights parked out there as the concrete was level so the the aircraft and trailer could be lined up. Guppy loading later moved to the south apron from 1983, once laid.

In terms of todays traffic, with around 18 or so night stopping larger Boeing 737s and Airbus A.319s, the old terminal apron would certainly not have coped without massive restructuring and enlargement - neither would the terminal have coped with 5m pax per annum - which is why the infrastucture was transferred to the south airfield site during the middle of the 1980s. Maximium annual throughput through the 'art deco' terminal was 0.7m pax pa in 1979, more typically 0.5m in the mid 1980s. A guess at max apron capacity, including the fingers would be around 10-11 aircraft, with a mix of BAC.1-11, Boeing 737-200, Caravelle, Viscount, Boeing 727, Trident, Douglas DC-9-10/30 and Friendship aircraft during diversion sessions. With overflow parking on the Western and north airfield runways.

Largest aircraft at the Airport, the Lockheed C-5A Galaxy parked on the Western Apron for a weekend, while all the visits by the Antonov An.124 Ruslan have been since the move onto the south airfield.

The only passenger type to have visited before the move of terminals/airfields in 1986, which never ever parked at the north airfield 'art deco' terminal was Concorde, restricted to the newer, thicker concrete on the south airfield due to the 'stiletto' high weight loading of the undercarriage bogies.

Have you looked back on earlier sheets of the index of the 'EGGP history & memories' section as all the Liverpool Airport visits by DC-10, Tristar, A.300/310, together with a number of other significant types are profiled and mostly illustrated on this forum (with further types in the 'Special Projects' section of http://www.nwan.co.uk). There are also great photos of aircraft parked at Liverpool Airport on the nwan site too.

I hope that 'Jake 3' won't mind a slight pedantic correction, as by the time of the first Jumbo visit to Liverpool (November 1978), BOAC had merged, G-AWNI being operated by British Airways.

[Deleted]

Illustrating G-AWNI at LPL...





And the USAF C-5 on the Western Apron:

[viscount]

Boeing 747-100 EI-ASI was the second Jumbo to land at Liverpool. It positioned from Dublin on 3rd April 1979 as EI7212 in order to operate an outbound charter the same day to Bermuda as EI7937. The flight should have operated from Manchester, but was re-routed via Liverpool due to strike disruption at Manchester Airport. The departure exploded the myth that wide bodies could not depart Liverpool transatlantic direct with a passenger load without making an en route fuel stop at Prestwick or Shannon.

This was the only visit by EI-ASI to Liverpool, all other visits by Aer Lingus Jumbos featured EI-BED, which was in a high capacity seating layout.

[lesmcs]

Thanks Brian for informing me that the above photos were no longer displayed I moved them into another file without thinking of the change of location in the image URL.
Apologies to all, pictures displayed again below.
LesMcs




;D

[owensy]

Slightly off subject, but why did the C5 visit liverpool? I remember it making the front of the Daily Mirror!

[viscount]

Without realising it, Owensy, you've answered your own question. The simple answer is publicity, as intended, the media interest generated by the Galaxy visit extended well beyond Merseyside and into the national press.

In the mid/late 70s Liverpool Airport was at a low point, making an annual loss, without much support politically and a principal operator (BA) who was not really interested in any route development, with Airport closure being an attractive option to some.

How to change the apathy towards the Airport was one of the tasks tackled by Councilor Burlinson as Chair of the Airport Committee. A number of seemingly unconnected events can be traced back to his 'behind the scenes' activity. He sought publicity at many different levels to create and build a positive image regarding the Airport. The initial Concorde visits and the Galaxy visit were able to prove Liverpool could handle any aircraft - both visits attracted amazing amount of interest and huge numbers of sightseers. The late '70s and early '80s Air Displays brought a greater public awareness of the Airport, use of Airport land for a service by the Pope, while possibly the longest lasting legacy of Councilor Burlinson's profile raising initiatives was the formation of 'Friends of Liverpool Airport' (FoLA) www.fola.org.uk His profile raising activity resulted in changes in public opinion and the political will within Merseyside County Council to support the funding and the drive to move the commercial operation of the Airport from the north to the south airfield 1982-1986, so putting into place the foundations of today's success.

Just how he convinced the USAF into bringing a Galaxy into Liverpool and opening it up to the public for a weekend is another matter! The 'official' excuse centered around demonstrating that any aircraft in the USAF inventory could use Liverpool Airport for resupply flights connected with the US Army medical depot at Burtonwood, but publicity for the Airport was the primary local reason.

[jake3]

Viscount thanks for the memory jog, thinking back it might have been a vc10, but it was a long time ago. Think my age is catching up with me.

[trumpeter]

I remember the old apron was in use for some time, after new terminal opened, especially for diversions, storage etc. Has anyone any pictures. Also has a 757 or 767 ever parked on old apron? I remember seeing BAe 146's lined up on old apron, these were the most modern jet-liner I saw.............

[owensy]

I know for sure that a number of BA 757's used the old apron but not sure on the 767

[vanguard]

Me thinks the 757's used the apron by Banks Rd....."the west apron".....,the 767,if i'm right never went to the old main apron, in fact the 1st 767 went onto the south apron i know as i was there,back to the 757's i do remember Monarch's 757's on the west apron.

Vanguard.

[viscount]

Viscounts is back.

The first Boeing 767 to visit Liverpool Airport was a newly delivered Britannia Airways example G-BKVZ on Sunday 12th February 1984. In the 'EGGP' enthusiast magazine of the time I noted that it arrived from Manchester at 1010 and taxied to the terminal, then undertook around 2 hours of training, before departure at 1340 to Bristol. Clearly this was the north airfield terminal being long before 4.86.

I've not looked this up to check my memory, but I suspect that the first Boeing 767, as recalled by Vanguard, on the south apron was the American Airlines diverted flight only a few weeks after the terminal was opened.

I'll look up further visits of the type once I've unpacked and have time too.

[vanguard]

Sorry viscount it was not an American Airlines 767,it was in fact the BY767 as i and one other
person marshalled the aircraft on the south apron then put steps up to it,yes i remember it well.

Vanguard.

[viscount]

The Boeing 767 quite definately used and collected passengers on the north airfield prior to the change of terminal location 4.86.

First visits by Boeing 767s were on crew training sorties by Britannia Airways, but later on passenger charter, then by American on diversion. This is a full list of B.767s published as part of a complete list of wide-body visits in 1986 (MAS Flypast and again with updates late 1989 (FoLA 09/27).

.........on south a/f first commerical use of newly laid apron 24.9.83 by Concorde, with the mail bag sorting office and night mail 'spokes' moved 12.1.84, however use of north airfield and terminal continued by day .......

12.02.84 G-BKVZ Britannia Manchester-Bristol BY767A, crew training, parked on apron (according to my contemporary published notes at the north terminal) following arrival
28.02.84 G-BKVZ Britannia f&t Manchester, BY767A, night stopped at Liverpool (I have no record as to where it was parked though), crew training
15.03.84 G-BKVZ Britannia Manchester-Luton, BY767, crew training
20.02.85 G-BKPW Britannia f&t Manchester. BY767A/767B, crew training
15.05.85 G-BLKV Britannia Gatwick-Rotterdam, BY862AF/862A, EFC supporters outbound for Cup final v. Rapid Vienna
16.05.85 G-BKPW Britannia Rotterdam-Manchester, BY863F/863BF, jubilant EFC supporters inbound

............... passenger services move from north to south airfield into the new terminal 3.86 ................

08.05.86 N321AA American A/L, f&t Chicago O'Hare, Manchester strike diversion (first wide body passengers through the new terminal)
07.03.89 G-BNYS Britannia Las Palmas-Manchester, BAL212B/997A, inbound pax, divert due to night runway work at Manchester
09.03.89 G-BNCW Britannia Malta-Manchester, BAL501B/995A, pax inbound, divert due night runway work at Manchester
14.03.89 G-BNYS Britannia Las Palmas-Manchester, BAL212B/997A pax inbound. divert due to night runway work at Manchester
22.09.89 G-BOPB Britannia, Thurleigh-Manchester, BY767T, training flight

... no point in any further, '90 onwards, until I pull my notes together and cover the Boeing 767 as a complete type review.

However, I can with absolute certainty, state that the Boeing 767 did use the north terminal and with passengers.