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Post by ronturner on Oct 18, 2010 16:35:59 GMT 1
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Post by Biggles on Oct 18, 2010 23:40:42 GMT 1
This pair are brilliant, papers in UK today did report that it looks like that scrapping the Harrier fleet would mean that we could have two spanking new carriers but no aircraft on board until 2018 when the F35 replacement was in service ?? You couldn`t make this up really , the last Government should be arrested for Treason for leaving this financial abyss that has caused this situation to exist.
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Post by liverpoolman1 on Oct 19, 2010 7:48:50 GMT 1
Hold on, Biggles, old son, hold on. Our Coalition Government is to scrap Ark Royal as of now and we do not have the replacement carriers in place until 2018. Seems to me that they are in a mighty hurry to leave us denuded of naval air defence just to make a political point. Would you scrap your only fixed wing carrier without having a replacement in the dockyard ready to sail? I for one wouldn't. HMS Illustrious is a helicopter carrier so is no substitute for the Ark Royal. Just let's hope that we don't meet another military incident where Harriers are needed. Coming as it does the week after Hillary Clinton urged NATO to pull its full weight in the Alliance, makes todays decision even more bizarre. Sleep well tonight and remember, the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.
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Post by copperbob on Oct 19, 2010 8:03:04 GMT 1
As an ex forces man with 13 years in what was once the Royal Air Force and soon to be little more than a 3rd world flying club. I am dismayed at these cuts, yes, I agree in someway with biggles, blaming the last government maily, but to leave us with no fixed wing carrier capability it fills me with dread. I heard the reply on the TV yesterday re the Falklands (we can defend it with whats there) total nonsense! having served there myself in the 80's when we had Phantoms present I know we would have just been a holding force pending arrival of the Navy and more aircraft within a period of time.
I also served in what was the now long gone RAFG on Tornadoes against the threat of the Warsaw pact forces, yes, theyt have now recinded, but not totally gone, and now we are left with a token force (or will be left very soon) we are now the laughing stock of NATO and the civilised world.
When I joined the RAF in Feb 78 we had nearly 99,000 personnel, when I left in 91 we had less than 75,000 and now I dread to think of the numbers of what was once a proud force. It looks like we will remain Americas biggest aircraft carrier and with the possibilty of the USAF holding more aircraft than we do in our country, frightening thought!
Finally I can see why cuts need to be made in certain areas, my present job under severe scrutiny at present and with 19 months left till retirement I am counting the days down! But I am still filled with total dismay as to the levels predicted, it fills me with dread for myself, my family, my friends and colleagues.
God help us if (and when) we next come to blows with some tinpot dictator again! As I am sure it will happen, sooner rather than later.
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Post by Cityflyer on Oct 19, 2010 18:38:44 GMT 1
On a local note, with the cancelation of the Nimrod MRA.4 will the Woodford factory close on Friday??
With the only work @ Woodford being the Nimrod Project what will remain of this historic site
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Post by alexmac on Oct 19, 2010 19:52:43 GMT 1
Today's cuts are a dark, dark day for the British military. We will now not be unable to project as much power as we have in recent years for the next 2-3 decades at least. Scrapping HMS Ark Royal AND either Illustrious or Ocean leaves a huge dent in the fleet, and to take away the only fast jet aircraft we can put on them by 2011 is catastrophic. As has been pointed out, we are getting two new carrers, but one will be placed on extended readiness for sea. So that's £2 billion for a large piece of metal to sit in a dockyard.... whilst the other carrier will only have a compliment of 12 aircraft!!!!!
The C130Js are to be retired a decade early in 2022, the VC10s will no longer act as transport aircraft (AAR only), MRA4s which have cost £3 billion to date simply gone, closure of RAF Wittering, Cottesmore and Kinloss potentially, a reduced Tornado GR4 fleet, 4x Frigates/Destroyers out of service, an amphibous ship (Bulwark or Albion) on extended readiness...... the list goes on....
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Post by coaxingtin on Oct 19, 2010 21:58:56 GMT 1
And Woodvale survives yet again!
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Post by owensy on Oct 19, 2010 22:00:00 GMT 1
No dedicated SAR support/survelance aircraft with the MRA4 and also the Sentinel being WFU after Afganistan! 40 JSF instead of 140+ Its a sad day for our Armed Forces!!
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Post by Biggles on Oct 19, 2010 22:13:37 GMT 1
This report says it all sadly,
Aviation expert Jim Ferguson said: “The Nimrod is an extremely important aircraft. If the Nimrod 4 doesn't happen then this country, as a maritime power, is going to have the same anti-submarine capability as the People's Republic of Mongolia, which doesn't have a coastline."
Also how do we run Trident as an effective deterrent with no AW Nimrod air cover ?
For the first time in decades, the skies above Moray may be about to fall silent, cuts succeeding where the Luftwaffe failed.
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Post by alexmac on Oct 19, 2010 23:46:39 GMT 1
Woodvale is worth buttons. The Nimrod is a huge asset to be lost, as is the Sentinel when we pull out of Afghan. These are cuts which will benefit us in the short term, in tough economic times, without the long term in mind - what happens when the economy recovers and we are able to, and need, the ships, aircraft and land assets back!?
On the plus side, we did manage to launch 2x F3s and a VC10 to intercept some Ruskies this morning!
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Post by liverpoolman1 on Oct 20, 2010 7:58:48 GMT 1
The proposals are beyond belief. It is a sad, sad day indeed. If this is an example of the 'slash and burn' policy of the Coalition then potential enemies - and there are still many who want to see our society founder - must be rubbing their hands with glee. This slash and burn policy, which leaves us defenceless, leaves me in despair. Does anyone remember the story of the hare and the tortoise? Whatever became of 'slow-and-steady-wins-the-race' I ask? Slow and steady wins out over slash and burn every time. Has the Coalition taken leave of its senses?
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Post by coaxingtin on Oct 20, 2010 8:36:24 GMT 1
I'm not so sure that Woodvale is only worth buttons. It would make prime building land for houses, assuming it isn't zoned as green belt or whatever.
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Post by maverick on Oct 20, 2010 10:47:20 GMT 1
I'm afraid it is the same old Tories - knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Whilst delayed for now - how can Trident be justified? Use it and we're all screwed. Don't use it and it's a waste of money. I think we would be more secure with lots of nuclear capable Tornados.
Still, not all bad news - I believe Thatcher is ill and in hospital.
I have the Champagne on ice ready.
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Post by davel on Oct 20, 2010 11:50:25 GMT 1
What coalition, it's the tories policies through and through and the Lib Dems are just nodding even though it wasn't one of their own policies. It would fall apart tomorrow if the Lib Dems stood on their manifesto!!
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Post by ronturner on Oct 20, 2010 18:13:34 GMT 1
What do members think about the fact that the security of the realm is put at risk in order to support a corrupt regime in Afghanistan? Who got us mixed up in Afghanistan anyway? RT
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