Defense and Democracy

[ronturner]

Ask yourself: "when was I asked to vote on whether or not the defense of my country should be dependent or "interdependent", whatever that means, on a deal with France".
If you were not asked to vote on this, was your MP, whom you elected less than 6 months ago, asked to vote for this on your behalf.
How can a treaty be signed without this sort of mandate, and what happened to the Conservative promise not to commit us to more European integration without a referendum.

Personally, I am in favour of this co-operation, and I am also a supporter of the EEC, or to precise the Common Market, as it used to be, but I hate these executive decisions without a popular mandate.

[Biggles]

Something that realy concerns me is the problem with the Falkland Islands and its continued UK soveriegnty. France supplied Argentina with weapons and firepower which resulted in many deaths of UK troops in the last conflict. This latest joint venture has seen Sarkosy fail to answer on what France would do if this conflict raised its head again, (it will) I dred to think of what will or would happen if the French have a garrision gaurding the islands and its oil reserves and all of a sudden the Argies arrive on the beaches.?

[Deleted]

There will be a white flag flying over Port Stanley followed by a sudden change in name Now, what could be simpler than that and you couldn't even blame the Brit's.

[Biggles]

There was a saying in Dads Army made by the dower scot "Were all doomed" how prophetic it seems now with the state of our modern military.
Just mulling over what the changing of the gaurd at Buckingham Palace will be like when the Greeks, French or Germans take over duties.?

[rock37]

The French have some excellent equipment so we may really benefit from this and the thought of the foreign legion on public duties at Buck house or Windsor castle would be interesting .

[ronturner]

I wonder if the Air Force display teams will merge. Certainly "Les Fleches Rouges" have a great reputation here in France, but I think French National pride will be the over riding here. Maybe they will mix the fleet. Perhaps 4 of one type and 5 of another, or better still, in line with most European thinking, 4 1/2 of each.
RT

[johnoakes]

My Grandfather fought alongside the French in 1916 and used to rate them highly.
Its time we remembered the times we were interdependant (as far back as the Crimea) and got on with being good Europeans--a bit like Iberia and British airways.LOL
Now we have the tunnel technically we are no longer an island--and even King Arthur recruited Lancelot(Hmmm!LOL) who was from Brittany.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2010 8:46:54 GMT 1 ronturner said:

How can a treaty be signed without this sort of mandate, and what happened to the Conservative promise not to commit us to more European integration without a referendum.

It would appear that this route is now beyond our political capabilities. It matters not who you vote for, the ploy by all political parties is to get the older generation on board by promising a referendum. Unfortunately for some, this is total spin as all their playing for is time. Having studied the EU many years ago I found that two of the requirements of joining the Euro was to keep inflation low and free National Banks from political control. Labour used the tactic of a referendum to oust the Conservatives but the very first thing they did when they came to power was was to send us down the route of further EU integration by giving the Bank of England independence. Note also the effect on interest rates. And we all know what happened to their promise of a referendum.

The younger generations are less anti-Europe and can't see what all this fuss is about. So, time will be the deciding factor but watch how, regardless of what politicians say, we continue to pave the European path. We will eventually get a referendum, then another , then another, until finally the country says yes. Then there will be no more referendums - job done.

[Biggles]

"The French have some excellent equipment"

Yes they do and did also when the stuff they supplied Argentina with was put to such "good" use against British troops.

also

"The younger generations are less anti-Europe and can't see what all this fuss is about"

Sadly they also think alcohol, wacky backy and Mew Mew is not a problem.

[johnoakes]

Lets not mention the US made Skyhawks then?
Arms sales are always capable of biting the hand that feeds--just as free food leads to over breeding and more problems for the next generation.--there's no easy solution to these problems--employment is crucial in whatever industry and we never want to see people starve.

[groundhugger]

Its only a piece of paper , remember that old chap waiving a similar one getting out of a plane in 1938 "peace in our time" , what we need is jobs ! now theres a thought , we could use all those unemployed people who we pay to sit on there arses to build stuff like Aircraft carriers , Planes , Tanks Guns ships , Nah thats too easy

[Biggles]

I watched a news programme this morning Rememberance Sunday, and the presenter interviewed the current Chief Of Staff for the UK Military. I was fascinated to hear him state when questioned about the Falklands that the likelyhood of Argentina invading again or attempting to take them back as we didn`t have, or won`t have aircraft carriers with aircraft on board was highly unlikely, he was clear that he did not think it would happen due to the current political and financial climate in Argentina and even if they did the UK would get plenty if warning ?
I also heard a rumour today from someone who sjould know that these aircraft carriers may have F.18 Hornets placed in them flown by RAF and others ? They do fly them in the USA when on exchange and excercises.
Of course to me the fact that the Falklands has now got oil in quantity that wouldn`t be an incentive to claim the Malvinas back would it ?