LHR Disgrace

[Biggles]

Anyone reading any or all of the user articles concerning the collapse of LHR can not help, like me to wonder what the hell will happen to visitors coming into the UK for the proposed Olympics to be held in and around London.

When a reporter from the FT flying from Turkey into LHR refers to going FROM the First world back to The Third world and from there on it descends further.

What the hell is happening to the UK

Here is one article.

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c2aa45c-0c75-11e0-8408-00144feabdc0.html#axzz18h7xm9sL

[liverpoolman1]

Other airports across Europe are also suffering because of the weather but that does not excuse BAA from seeking an innovative solution to their problem. Accepting that some aircraft are stuck on their stands means that SOME flights will be delayed/cancelled. However, Heathrow is not the only airport in the UK and British Airways and other carriers could use those that are still open to provide some sort of service and get many passengers to their Christmas destinations. Incoming aircraft could use Birmingham, Manchester and, yes, even Liverpool to bring passengers to the UK. Outgoing passengers could be sent by bus or train to these provincial airports and flown out. Who would rather travel by train to Liverpool for example to catch a flight to, say, New York as an option to sleeping on the floor of Terminal 5? Passengers who are scheduled to fly out in 24/48 hours could be contacted and given their new departure airport and travel instructions. If Willie Walsh had his brain in gear he would see that it would be cheaper than providing 4000 hotel rooms in London as reported on the news. Am I being cynical in thinking that BAA is not thinking laterally as they don't want airlines to use anything other than Heathrow to protect their business interests? A plan to use provincial airports would require planning to use airports that could serve certain destinations and that had capacity. This is known as strategic thinking and planning and is required to HELP THE CUSTOMER - or have airline/BAA managers become blinded to the need to serve customers rather than protect the profit margins of BAA? And before someone mentions transit passengers let me ask how many are actually in transit? Not enough to inconvenience the whole aircraft payload, I'll bet. Rant over - and I feel better for that!!

[Deleted]

It's what happens when the NIMBYS block plans to expand an airport that is already operating at 98% capacity.

[avro748]

Liverpoolman1 i think some airline execs have read your post as a few of the Heathrow Cathay, Emirates, Etihad and Singapore flights do seem to have been operating out of MAN. Lets hope when all this is over those same airlines remember who helped them out and look at increasing their operations from MAN. Not everybody coming to the UK wants to go to London.

Cheers

Shaun

[CloudWarrior]

Dec 21, 2010 12:08:04 GMT 1 @olbanjoplayer said:

It's what happens when the NIMBYS block plans to expand an airport that is already operating at 98% capacity.

Having 3 runways wouldnt have helped the situation, it would have still needed to have been cleared, plus the additional taxiways and stands.

[LPL]

The problem is down to pax turning up to none existent flights, the airport doesn't have expanding walls.

[Biggles]

How pleasing to see the boss of BAA on the news again today, a man earning just short of £1m a year , stating that he is not taking his 2010 bonus payment. Personally I would have been more impressed if he had said he was stepping down from the job.

[ronturner]

On the one hand, it must be one hell of a nightmare trying to clear all that snow when your capital investment is geared to a a slight dusting now and then. On the other hand, Heathrow is a major gateway and should have been able to cope better, especially as the military offered to help.
This time the major problem seems to have been aircraft stuck at the stands. There must be dozens of airports all over the world who do not get caught out by this kind of thing. How do they cope? What risk analysis has ever been carried out by the operations department at BAA?
(I also wonder how our Air Force would cope, what's left of it, if forced into a real life operational situation when there is a bit of snow on the ground. I would think it would be a walk in the park for the Russians. Just as well they are not our major threat these days., perhaps.)
I was once in New York state, not far from Newark and woke to find snow which had drifted up to the level of half way up my first floor bedroom window. The roads were chaotic. I missed my flight from Newark. It got away more or less on time.

[paulatc]

At Heathrow it is the airlines responsibility to clear the stands, not the BAA although they were helping out over the weekend. The BAA are responsible for runways and taxiways.

[Biggles]

Paul, your comments about the various areas of responsibility for snow clearance sum up exactly how stupid those types of agreement are and the resulting failings

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2010 8:56:07 GMT 1 liverpoolman1 said:

Incoming aircraft could use Birmingham, Manchester and, yes, even Liverpool to bring passengers to the UK. Outgoing passengers could be sent by bus or train to these provincial airports and flown out. Who would rather travel by train to Liverpool for example to catch a flight to, say, New York as an option to sleeping on the floor of Terminal 5?

Unfortunately, there just aren't the amount of coaches/buses available at short notice to do this. Also, trains are currently overcrowded in the best of weather - even more so when it snows. Due to train tickets being heavily discounted for those who book in advance, it is cheaper to let passengers stay in hotels. Gone are the days of cheap train or even bus travel due to this method of pricing but that's what the public want.

Coach and bus company's no-longer have the spare capacity required to conduct such a large scale operation. Indeed, I was talking to a coach driver who brokedown in Devon and his company searched the whole country for a replacement but couldn't get one south of Carlisle. They ended up ordering a fleet of taxis to get the passengers home.

Driving hours (like flying hours) are a huge problem too. The government relaxed these by one hour recently (as if that's going to make a huge difference) in order for lorries to get goods to the shops. So, getting people from Heathrow to Birmingham or Manchester really is a none starter. The only way this could work is if the airlines and airports were prepared to pay to have coaches and drivers on standby for such an emergency and that would run into many millions of £'s and would rarely be called upon.

[liverpoolman1]

I did a stint for a railway company and we had an agreement with a national coach company to step in at very short notice in case of breakdown. They had arrangements with local coach companies to back up their contract arrangements - and it worked. What you have said, Ste-t, may, on the surface, be the response one expects these days. However when I ran my own company I employed people who agreed with my personal philosophy which was " don't tell me why you can't do it, tell me when you have done it". From my experience this philosophy gave people the opportunity to think freely and come up with innovative solutions. Now if that philosophy had been operated by BA and others we may not be having this discussion....................

[Deleted]

I remember it well the company was named Fraser Eagle. Unfortunately, it went bust owing millions to smaller companies when it subcontracting it's rail replacements. Not sure how many of the smaller ones it dragged down with it but it was reported at the time of the collapse that they would be numerous. In Merseyside local operators nolonger carryout Merseytravel replacement work this is now being left to companys such a Arriva and Stagecoach but only when substantial notice is given. Gone are the days of the emergency replacement.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia page about them

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Eagle