B.E.A. at Liverpool

[danairamb]

I have a few questions regarding BEA (British European Airways for those not old enough to remember) operations at LPL. Prior to their surrendering Irish Sea service to Cambrian in 1963 (if I recall correctly) did BEA only operate from Liverpool to Belfast and the Isle of Man, or did they operate a LPL-LHR service as well, or to any other destinations? As discussed recently Cambrian did operate a LHR-LPL-IOM service.
I know for most of BEA's tenure at LPL they operated DC-3 or Pionairs as they called them. However my first aircraft memory is seeing my cousin off to Belfast in 1958, and as I recall the four propellers and silver and maroon colour scheme it had to be on a BEA Viscount. I also have seen photos of my aunt leaving for honeymoon to the IOM in a clearly identifiable BEA Viscount 700 in the black,white and red scheme. That would have been in 1960. Do records show if BEA ever regularly operated Viscount 803s or 806s on their Irish Sea service?

Thanks

David in Ottawa

[viscount]

My notes for the Isle of Man route show:

1.2.47 to 31.3.63 BEA with Rapide, Dakota & from 1.4.60 Viscount 700
1.4.63 to 31.3.76 Cambrian with Viscount 700, then Viscount 800 (from 11.67 BAS)
1.4.76 to 28.10.78 BA with Viscount 800
29.10.78 to 31.10.82 BMA with Viscount 800 & F-27 Friendship
since then Manx Airlines, Emerald, BA Regional, Keenair, EuroManx, Emerald again, Aer Arann and now Flybe have operated the route.

My notes for Liverpool to Belfast show:

1.2.47 to 31.3.63 BEA with Ju.52, Avro 19, Dakota, from 1.4.60 Viscount 700, from 1.4.62 Viscount 800 (routed BHX-LPL-IOM)
6.10.48 to (not op for long) Aer Lingus with Vikings
1.4.63 to 31.3.76 Cambrian with Viscount 700/800 (from 11.67 BAS)
4.11.68 until 31.3.76 winters only, BKS/North East with Viscount 800, Leeds-LPL-BFS
1.4.76 to 28.10.78 BA with Viscount 800
29.10.78 to 31.10.82 BMA with Viscounts, Friendships
since then Manx, BA Regional, Easyjet, Flybe, Ryanair, Flybe again. Not distinguished between Nutts Corner, Aldergrove and Harbour/City Airports above.

My incomplete notes for London routes, which are subject to future research show:

3.55 to 31.12.63 Starways with Dakota, DC-4 and Viscount 700
summer? 63 to uncertain? Cambrian IoM-LPL-LHR using Viscount
1.1.64 to 8.11.68 British Eagle with Britannia 300, Viscount 700 and BAC-111-200/300.
11.68 to 31.3.76 Cambrian with Viscount 700/800 and BAC-11-400 (initially took over the route on failure of BEIA). From 11.67 BAS.
1.4.76 to 28.10.78 BA
29.10.79 to 31.4.86 BMA with DC-9-10, Viscount, Friendship
then Manx, BMA again, Genair, Community Express, Euroceltic, BA Regional, Easyjet, VLM at least. Again 'London' includes Heathrow, Gatwick, City, Stansted and Luton, but who served which is not distinguished above.

These are notes, not through research, so treat with caution. However do answer the question re introduction of Viscount 700s by B.E.A. and that Viscount 800s were used for a period to Belfast. Perhaps PHB can comment on memories of BEA maroon lines scheme Viscount in '58?

I've lots of bits of paper (aka 'notes'), but also much missing information identified too, for a prospective series of articles at some stage in the future - but not in the next few days!

[danairamb]

Great response as always. Perhaps, at such a young age, the image in my head of a viscount could have been from a picture or poster at the airport seen at the same time as my cousin leaving. Of course I am sure by the late 50s there were bound to have been occasional visits by viscounts as it was then such an integral part of the BEA fleet. I had a Ladybird book as a child (many years after 1958) with an illustration of two Viscount 700s in the maroon and silver BEA livery at LPL, so they must have visited at some time to inspire that.
Thanks again for all your efforts. I was surprised that BEA only really serve two destinations from LPL.

[viscount]

I'd overlooked the usefulness of Phil Lo Bao's 1989 book 'An Illustrated History of British European Airways'. While the vast majority of the text relates to European, rather than domestic services; concentrating on new routes and aircraft rather than the routine, the appendicies throw up interesting details.

B.E.A. was effectively formed on 1.2.47, on which date (as already stated in post above) they operated from Liverpool to Belfast and the Isle of Man, and did so right through to passing the routes on to Cambrian 1.4.63. Manchester and Liverpool are shown as connected throughout the same period, which has not been mentioned above.

There were other routes operated into Liverpool too, though mainly in the late 40s.

From 1.2.47 there was a service Croydon-Manchester-Liverpool, operated at a frequency of 14 times weekly with twice daily Dragon Rapide flights. This was at a time when most BEA flights used Northolt. On 6.10.47 when BEA moved out of Croydon, the route moved to Northolt and was operated by Dakotas, Northolt-Manchester-Liverpool until 17.4.48, after which the service terminated at Manchester.

What the text describes as a 'controversial' service operated from 11.4.49, for one summer only, ending 1.10.49, connecting Cardiff-Chester-Liverpool-Valley. A heavily loss making service, operated by Dragon Rapide aircraft.

Then there was the world's first sustained scheduled Helicopter service Cardiff-Liverpool, some via Wrexham, operating from 1.6.50 to 31.3.51, using Sikorsky S-51.

Final route adding to my information, a service from Birmingham (which presumably routed onward across the Irish sea) for the one winter season of Liverpool operations 1.11.61 to 31.3.62.

Well, if nothing else, this does confirm that B.E.A. did not connect Liverpool and the Capital during the 50s and early 60s.

[danairamb]

Very interesting, especially some of those early routes. I wonder why the service between LPL and the capital was abandoned. Did MAN always generate more traffic? Or was it just a question of service from MAN being promoted over LPL. Back then I would have thought that LPL's art deco terminal was superior to the then MAN terminal? Perhaps the state of LPL's runways which you discussed in a recent post played a role in MAN being favoured as well. You mentioned the BHX-LPL-IOM-BFS service earlier as operating from April 1 62, so this was probably a continuation of the one started the previous November that you mention in this latest post.

[viscount]

I've pasted a copy of an e-mail from Phil Butler, which adds to the above posts. Seemed easier than retyping the essence the original communication.

Dear Brian, The items that you've done so far are fine, but I think we may need to explore the Birmingham originating flights a bit more. I'm sure they were always BHX-LPL-BFS, not touching the IoM. So they complemented the MAN-LPL-IoM departures at about 08.00 in the morning. I'm not sure if they offered a BHX-IoM connection via LPL.

The other missing item is a BEA LPL-Jersey flight, which definitely operated weekly on Sundays in 1951 summer season, with Dakotas. It likely started earlier than 1951 but I have no recollection or records to confirm that. It was planned to go daily in 1952, but Cambrian appealed to the licensing authority to have permission refused (and won). The reason was the history of Liverpool/Cardiff services, previously run by BEA, which were run to appease the Welsh Office and were supposed to offer a link between North & South Wales. Cambrian claimed their 'essential' link route between N & S Wales was only made viable because they could carry other passengers going onwards to Jersey. So BEA lost and Cambrian was granted a licence to run from LPL to Jersey via Cardiff and I think Bristol, Swansea and other places. So far as I recall they only flew via Cardiff, but I could be wrong.

Best wishes, Phil

I've looked at the Phil Lo Bao 1989 B.E.A. history again, and sure enough in the Appendices find I had missed an entry for B.E.A. operating from 1.4.47 to 4.9.55 on the Jersey to Liverpool route. There is no reference to Jersey-Cardiff by B.E.A. which makes sense if it was a Cambrian operaton. Regretably, many, many years ago I lent out my Cambrian history hard-back (the one with the faded vivid orange-red dust-cover), possibly publication of which dates back to the mid 70s. I've already identified Cambrian's '50s Liverpool operations as an area I need to find far more detail about.

The MGAE visitors log books for the early 60s quite clearly show that the B.E.A. Viscount 800s only operated regularly into Liverpool from 1.4.62. This supports Phil Butler's statement in his book that BEA operated Viscount 800s Birmingham-Liverpool-Belfast from 1.4.62; as against Phil Lo Bao's statement that the Birmingham-Liverpool service only operated winter season 1961/62 (unless they initially used Viscount 700s - in which case the operation would not show in the visitors log books!).

[viscount]

A thread that has so far gone without illustration.

Here Viscount 701 G-AMOD is seen in the early '60s "red box" logo colours. G-AMOD would have been seen at Liverpool in the period from 1.4.60 until withdrawn 8.62 and eventual sale to VASP of Brasil as PP-SRJ.

The departing Westland Widgeon behind places the photo either in 1960 when G-APPS and G-APVD visited) or 1962 when G-APTW and G-APVD visited.

I've looked carefully at the enlarged image and a fairly certain the 'last two' on the nose wheel door are 'OD', rather than the longer serving and eventually Cambrian 'OO'.

[viscount]

Viscount 701 G-ALWF seen here at Liverpool in the very early 60s is still wearing the 1950s maroon narrow bands scheme. This scheme was replaced in the early 60s by the black with red wings and square red logo scheme as illustrated by G-AMOD above. G-ALWF is currently preserved at Duxford, once again in her late 50s colour scheme as seen here.



Mainstay of the BEA Irish Sea Liverpool operation during the 1950's was the Dakota or Pionair as BEA called their customised aircraft. The original b&w was tightly cropped along the bottom edge, but it does give in impression of just how 'close-up and personal' the public on the balcony were to the aircraft operations on the apron. G-AMJX was operated by BEA from 5.51 until leased to Cambrian 3.59.

[danairamb]

I wonder if anyone can recall, did BEA have any LPL based crews?
Thanks for these great pictures Brian. The Alan Pritchard collection is a great asset for our interest.

[john1958]

BEA.........fond memories of them!
My first ever flight in a plane was on a BEA Vanguard LHR-JER. For whatever reason we sat on the wing......it was 2 days before we could hear properly again! :-) Flew back again on a Vanguard 2 weeks later. Then sometime during the 6 weeks summer holidays I got a "red rover" ticket, this allowed unlimited travel on London buses, and spent the day at LHR.....got chatting to some lads up there........hey presto instant introduction to the great hobby of plane spotting!!!!! :-)
Following year we went back to JER again, and again with BEA, this time on Viscounts. I remember those halcyon days and going to the BEA ticket office in Lower Regent Street with my Dad to buy the tickets!!!!!!
I think we went 3 years running, and the last time we flew back on Viscount GAPIM!

OK....back to work!!!!!

John :-) :-) :-)