|
Post by nigestephyvr on Oct 22, 2019 22:56:45 GMT 1
Thanks Viscount for the welcome, sorry I have to post bad news as a first but noticed this in my travel agency news update so wanted to share it. I used to operate day trips from LPL back in 1996, as owner of Inter Towns Travel before emigrating to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Now operate an IATA travel agency in Vancouver's Olympic Village and fly in the winter for Sunwing Airllines (Owned by TUI) on 737's 800 and before the Max was grounded. Some of our aircraft were deployed in the UK a couple of summers ago and were operating into LPL on the LBA/LPL/PMI. So frustrating that I cannot connect my Beatles Tours clients visiting Liverpool from N America/Canada into LPL using interline
|
|
|
Post by kuga59 on Oct 24, 2019 11:26:01 GMT 1
What ever happened to the proposed Aer Lingus/Ryanair linkup on transatlantic flights?
|
|
|
Post by vctr on Oct 28, 2019 16:01:49 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by dalten1 on Nov 11, 2019 23:08:49 GMT 1
Services are planned sometime in advance. I would suggest the smaller airports are being sacrificed to protect the major airports, from which, services must operate, even if low loads, to retain runway slots. It is likely I am wrong but I am putting my take on historical events.
|
|
|
Post by dalten1 on Nov 11, 2019 23:35:40 GMT 1
For comparison Leeds has 22 departures tomorrow (13 of them jets) and East Midlands 24 (20 jets although many are Embraer 145s). Some of these flights could be considered charter/IT flights. Liverpool has none. EMA,of course, is bolstered by the large number of cargo flights.
|
|
|
Post by chris747 on Nov 12, 2019 0:29:37 GMT 1
Not these days Liverpool Airport passengers are from far and wide, so prices for seat would be no difference than Manchester. TUI did come back to LPL and operate a PMI and IBZ until relatively recently, they had planned a TFS and DLM as well, but all were pulled and the reason cited within the company was down to the market not really being "Sensatori" buyers, TUI saw the LPL market buying more 3* holidays which doesn't appeal as much to them, probably better suited for Jet2 Holidays. TUI have invested a lot into their 4/5 star own brand hotels and need to fill them, simply put LPL wasnt bringing in enough of those type of customers so they put the aircraft elsewhere and just offer EZY seats instead from LPL. I can't see TUI coming back anytime soon.
|
|
|
Post by northbynorthwest on Nov 12, 2019 3:22:44 GMT 1
What a difference a week makes - just 25 (33 in 2018) scheduled rotations today the lowest daily total for many years. Easyjet have 10 (15 in 2018) departures with just 2 to Belfast!! Ryanair have 7 (9 in 2018), Flybe have 3 (4 in 2018) and Wizz Air 5 (3 in 2018)- there were also 2 Blue Air in 2018. Similar reductions in mid-week services can be seen at other like sized airports and is presumably based on forward bookings. For what it is worth, we are seeing the same happening with the major carriers in the USA over the past couple of years. Obviously, the 737 Max groundings have caused Southwest, American and United to cut schedules quite dramatically. But I have noticed the same happening with Delta now too, particularly this year. Carriers used to fly particular flights daily year round; now you are seeing several flights being reduced to 4 or 5 flights flights per week. You may also see the dropping of certain routes for low demand times; typically, this would be flights that do not operate to/from a hub. This was unheard of just a few years ago - flights would operate daily and there would be some real bargains to try to fill the flights. Airlines would protect their markets come hell or high water, and saturating markets was a normal ploy. Heck, I can remember almost a full schedule being operated on Christmas Day about 25-30 years ago, with many 25-30% load factor flights. Back to today, it is all about yield management. It was as if the low cost carriers in Europe and the growth of the US Low Cost Carriers following the same business model (Spirit / Allegiant / Frontier) has forced the major carriers to take the plunge and follow suit with similar flight reductions. The time from the end of October to the lead up to the Thanksgiving Holidays, plus the time between the Thanksgiving traffic and Christmas, are traditionally lower demand times for vacation travel, so flights to Florida / Hawaii / Mexico for example are greatly reduced outside of peak travel times, and passengers are routed via the hubs instead of nonstops. I believe that this may be mirroring what is happening in Liverpool right now; except instead of routing people through a hub, Easyjet and Ryanair will book local passengers via Manchester instead during times or days of lower demand. This would probably lead to higher fares / greater yields for the carriers than during off peak times in the past. Evidence of this would be if there have been less of those fare sales from Easyjet or Ryanair than in previous years. (I have no idea about this, but my gut feeling is that there have been less overall.) If there have been less fare sales to stimulate demand, then the airline's Yield Management Departments have done their jobs. So, this may be the new norm, and if so, it could certainly affect airports like Liverpool which are close to other major airports.
|
|
|
Post by dalten1 on Nov 12, 2019 9:43:47 GMT 1
For comparison Leeds has 22 departures tomorrow (13 of them jets) and East Midlands 24 (20 jets although many are Embraer 145s). Tuesday is historically the quietest weekday. Even at LGW,(Worked there 27 years), you could go long period with very little traffic. Don't know what it's like now. It's what happens the rest of the week. Some other airports, large and small, have winter holiday flights. Liverpool relies on scheduled flights to provide these. I doubt if many,if any,tour operators are offering flights from LPL. EasyJet offer their own holidays. Thank goodness for the European Cup to provide a short break from the Humdrum days of winter.
|
|
|
Post by silvercity on Nov 12, 2019 10:39:48 GMT 1
Apart from Direct Holidays which really put Liverpool Airport back on the map, none of the tour operators ever put much faith behind Liverpool from what I recall. When i worked in travel there were two charters in summer by Airtours Palma and Faro, that was it. They always filled up, but they never expanded.
They then started loose business to Easyjet Ryanair which did start offering choice for passengers from Liverpool. I think Easyjet Holidays will be starting sometime soon. Jet2 ( and their holidays )would also work well from Liverpool.
|
|
|
Post by kuga59 on Nov 12, 2019 11:36:06 GMT 1
Can’t argue with anything discussed in previous posts. Therefore the airport must seek other types of business. East Midlands has got cargo flights. With Xmas on the horizon freight increases this time of year. Jan to Apl sees a big drop off. Lpl has been lucky with all the Brexit problems with the car industry stocking up, increasing cargo movements and hopefully this will continue until the final details of any future trade agreements are known and maybe it will continue for some years after. All business need to have more than one string to their bow. Increasing cargo flights is one answer. Lpl seem to be expanding their private jet movements on the back of the lack of capacity at Man and also the success of the football team. The city keeps changing for the better each year and this also seems to be attracting new business The jewel in the crown though would be an IT programme. Direct holidays saved the airport from closing many years ago but it is hard to see who could come in now. There are less and less companies in the marketplace. The main two TUI and Jet 2 now control the market. It would need someone to start up in a big way, with lots of cash, to make an impact. There are too many barriers in place to prevent such an operation starting up. Some of the problems - where do they get the aircraft seats from? There are few pure charter airlines around. Where do they get the slots at the main airports from? They have now been reallocated. Could an operation work if such a startup used secondary airports? And of course Ryanair and EasyJet are around quickly reacting to any potential competition.
|
|
bertj
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by bertj on Nov 12, 2019 11:59:20 GMT 1
Interesting article here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-50368894Not strictly applicable to Liverpool but is the writing on the wall regarding short distance aircraft pollution, airport waiting times etc? Apparently London to Glasgow (city centre to city centre) is quicker by rail if you add travel to the airport plus waiting time and possible baggage collection.
|
|
|
Post by andyh on Nov 12, 2019 12:42:08 GMT 1
On a quick calculation there are 2,821 departing seats available from EMA today (378 of them ‘IT’ seats); LPL has 4,127 - over 1300 more with no IT flights. Which would you rather have?
|
|
|
Post by silvercity on Nov 12, 2019 13:02:22 GMT 1
Id go for our scheduled choice. Personally I cant remember the last time I booked a package such as Tui offer. According MOL that model is now not the way forward.
|
|
wally
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by wally on Nov 12, 2019 13:05:51 GMT 1
Not to get hung up on daily departures but there were 28 in just one hour after the football the other night, probably more than any Summer hour here I would imagine. I don’t understand the doom mongering as Winters and especially Tuesdays are historically quiet. It’s not as though there is one scheduled movement as other airports have.
|
|
|
Post by dalten1 on Nov 12, 2019 14:37:09 GMT 1
On a quick calculation there are 2,821 departing seats available from EMA today (378 of them ‘IT’ seats); LPL has 4,127 - over 1300 more with no IT flights. Which would you rather have? Id go for our scheduled choice. Personally I cant remember the last time I booked a package such as Tui offer. According MOL that model is now not the way forward. They're seats available,as you say, not actual bums on seats. We will never know, on a daily basis anyway, who came out on top.
|
|