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Post by vctr on Oct 29, 2016 16:45:03 GMT 1
No not just LPL, although flybe are picking up the DSA-DUB link as soon as Aer Lingus end flights.
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Post by ametyst on Oct 29, 2016 17:02:08 GMT 1
Aer Lingus Regional are also dropping Cardiff although Flybe will still be on that route.
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Post by andyh on Oct 29, 2016 17:17:04 GMT 1
Interesting that Flybe is picking up some of the EIR Dublin routes. One wonders if they will do the same here (assuming they can agree a codeshare - pointless otherwise).
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Post by ronturner on Oct 29, 2016 17:20:48 GMT 1
I don't know what is going on here but I offer two possibilities. the most likely is the arrival of Cityjet instead of Stobart. Cityjet is not a particularly low cost operator in the way we have come to know that expression. I suspect that a deal was not reachable. This is similar to the reason why Thomson canned the Tenerife. No deal with a third party flyer.
The other possibility is a root and branch review within IAG. leading to a complete withdrawal from Liverpool and hence the reason for Vueling leaving us too.
There is more to it than the obvious, but we will probably never know.
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Post by ametyst on Oct 29, 2016 17:46:05 GMT 1
Each individual airline within the IAG group are responsible for their own operations and schedules. IAG do not dictate which airports or routes the individual airlines operate to or from. All IAG require is a return on investment.
However, IAG may get involved to coordinate schedules on certain routes such as Heathrow to Madrid. They will do the same in about 3 years time on routes from Heathrow to Belfast City and Dublin.
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Post by Proflyer on Oct 29, 2016 18:14:24 GMT 1
This cancellation had nothing to do with the pilots and the notion of good karma is, frankly, misguided, unfounded and nasty
The crews may complain about LPL but remember these crews operate into almost every major airport in the UK outside london so maybe there is some substance in what they say?
The overall regional network is not being wound down, far from it, but a review of routes between mainline and regional is natural and the loss makers go. It's as simple as that. DSA, EMA and LPL struggled.
But be sure, Mainline transatlantic relies on regional and the connecting traffic it provides is quite significant!
As for LPL, the problem as i see it (and i don't have access to the facts i'm just speculating) is nothing to do with cityjet or IAG or mainline winding down regional, it's the fact LPL is a VERY price sensitive market and the higher yielding passenger, which is where the money is, prefers Manchester for reasons i could only speculate about. There is also a perception issue that LPL is a leisure airport and MAN is the business airport in the region.
BRS and NCL do not suffer in the same way because they do not have a powerhouse of an airport 30 miles away. It's sad as i love LPL but the reality is this is why LPL will struggle in my view to retain operators because Manchester already has the market and serves it quite well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 20:52:18 GMT 1
I don't know what is going on here but I offer two possibilities. the most likely is the arrival of Cityjet instead of Stobart. Cityjet is not a particularly low cost operator in the way we have come to know that expression. I suspect that a deal was not reachable. This is similar to the reason why Thomson canned the Tenerife. No deal with a third party flyer. The other possibility is a root and branch review within IAG. leading to a complete withdrawal from Liverpool and hence the reason for Vueling leaving us too. There is more to it than the obvious, but we will probably never know. It would be great to see Cityjet, some good news would mitigate, the route drops by various airilnes. I don't know why IAG, and Liverpool would be such a big deals, its only two routes after all.
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Post by alwaysared on Oct 29, 2016 21:03:03 GMT 1
This cancellation had nothing to do with the pilots and the notion of good karma is, frankly, misguided, unfounded and nasty The crews may complain about LPL but remember these crews operate into almost every major airport in the UK outside london so maybe there is some substance in what they say? The overall regional network is not being wound down, far from it, but a review of routes between mainline and regional is natural and the loss makers go. It's as simple as that. DSA, EMA and LPL struggled. But be sure, Mainline transatlantic relies on regional and the connecting traffic it provides is quite significant! As for LPL, the problem as i see it (and i don't have access to the facts i'm just speculating) is nothing to do with cityjet or IAG or mainline winding down regional, it's the fact LPL is a VERY price sensitive market and the higher yielding passenger, which is where the money is, prefers Manchester for reasons i could only speculate about. There is also a perception issue that LPL is a leisure airport and MAN is the business airport in the region. BRS and NCL do not suffer in the same way because they do not have a powerhouse of an airport 30 miles away. It's sad as i love LPL but the reality is this is why LPL will struggle in my view to retain operators because Manchester already has the market and serves it quite well.
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Post by vanguard on Oct 29, 2016 21:03:38 GMT 1
This cancellation had nothing to do with the pilots and the notion of good karma is, frankly, misguided, unfounded and nasty The crews may complain about LPL but remember these crews operate into almost every major airport in the UK outside london so maybe there is some substance in what they say? The overall regional network is not being wound down, far from it, but a review of routes between mainline and regional is natural and the loss makers go. It's as simple as that. DSA, EMA and LPL struggled. But be sure, Mainline transatlantic relies on regional and the connecting traffic it provides is quite significant! As for LPL, the problem as i see it (and i don't have access to the facts i'm just speculating) is nothing to do with cityjet or IAG or mainline winding down regional, it's the fact LPL is a VERY price sensitive market and the higher yielding passenger, which is where the money is, prefers Manchester for reasons i could only speculate about. There is also a perception issue that LPL is a leisure airport and MAN is the business airport in the region. BRS and NCL do not suffer in the same way because they do not have a powerhouse of an airport 30 miles away. It's sad as i love LPL but the reality is this is why LPL will struggle in my view to retain operators because Manchester already has the market and serves it quite well. Has anyone thought,alongside that of the "big airport" and all that it entails inc.the facilities is the state of the building ie:portacabins and tin can bridges. Inprovements inside but not much outside,seems to me some that some investment is badly needed. vanguard.
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Post by alwaysared on Oct 29, 2016 21:13:45 GMT 1
This cancellation had nothing to do with the pilots and the notion of good karma is, frankly, misguided, unfounded and nasty The crews may complain about LPL but remember these crews operate into almost every major airport in the UK outside london so maybe there is some substance in what they say? The overall regional network is not being wound down, far from it, but a review of routes between mainline and regional is natural and the loss makers go. It's as simple as that. DSA, EMA and LPL struggled. But be sure, Mainline transatlantic relies on regional and the connecting traffic it provides is quite significant! As for LPL, the problem as i see it (and i don't have access to the facts i'm just speculating) is nothing to do with cityjet or IAG or mainline winding down regional, it's the fact LPL is a VERY price sensitive market and the higher yielding passenger, which is where the money is, prefers Manchester for reasons i could only speculate about. There is also a perception issue that LPL is a leisure airport and MAN is the business airport in the region. BRS and NCL do not suffer in the same way because they do not have a powerhouse of an airport 30 miles away. It's sad as i love LPL but the reality is this is why LPL will struggle in my view to retain operators because Manchester already has the market and serves it quite well. I don't often post comments on here but am a keen follower, I just want to add that not everyone in business considers Manchester as 'the business' airport for the Region, I run a business in Liverpool and basically if we can't fly from Liverpool to required destinations then we fly from London, which I say is still cheaper and more pleasant than Manchester.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2016 21:46:55 GMT 1
This cancellation had nothing to do with the pilots and the notion of good karma is, frankly, misguided, unfounded and nasty The crews may complain about LPL but remember these crews operate into almost every major airport in the UK outside london so maybe there is some substance in what they say? The overall regional network is not being wound down, far from it, but a review of routes between mainline and regional is natural and the loss makers go. It's as simple as that. DSA, EMA and LPL struggled. But be sure, Mainline transatlantic relies on regional and the connecting traffic it provides is quite significant! As for LPL, the problem as i see it (and i don't have access to the facts i'm just speculating) is nothing to do with cityjet or IAG or mainline winding down regional, it's the fact LPL is a VERY price sensitive market and the higher yielding passenger, which is where the money is, prefers Manchester for reasons i could only speculate about. There is also a perception issue that LPL is a leisure airport and MAN is the business airport in the region. BRS and NCL do not suffer in the same way because they do not have a powerhouse of an airport 30 miles away. It's sad as i love LPL but the reality is this is why LPL will struggle in my view to retain operators because Manchester already has the market and serves it quite well. Has anyone thought,alongside that of the "big airport" and all that it entails inc.the facilities is the state of the building ie:portacabins and tin can bridges. Inprovements inside but not much outside,seems to me some that some investment is badly needed. vanguard. I would agree, i was browsing through a magazine today and there was a feature on Munster Airport, serves less passengers than Liverpool, and yet they have air bridges, to my mind Liverpool should have facilities such as the by now.
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Post by andyh on Oct 29, 2016 23:04:58 GMT 1
Anyone whose flown Aer Lingus across the pond will know that their product isn't targeted at the 'high end' user. The route was hampered by Aer Lingus to start with by initially only being twice daily which meant some significant layovers in Dublin - off putting to many. The shift to EIR and higher frequency seemed to be having a positive effect on loads but for whatever reason they haven't seen fit to give the route a decent period of time to get established.
In terms of the other 'losses', CSA aren't leaving because they couldn't make the route work - they're being chased off by Ryanair. Vueling decided to pick a route already well served by RYR and EZY whilst having virtually no profile in the City Region. No surprise that it hasn't worked.
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Post by ametyst on Oct 29, 2016 23:54:34 GMT 1
No one has said CSA arecleaving because they could not make the route work. But, they are leaving none the less.
Yet Vueling seems to work from every other UK airport which also has competition to Barcelona. Strange that really!
I never had a comfortable ride on the ATR-72 to Dublin, the cabin baggage was only 7kg and small suitcases would not fit in the overhead lockers anyway. So, they would take the bags off you and deliver them to the bottom of the steps on disembarkation which sometimes took up to 15 minutes whilst they kept everybody on the aircraft. Ryanair is a more superior product all round.
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Post by midland500 on Oct 30, 2016 0:44:56 GMT 1
Yet Vueling seems to work from every other UK airport which also has competition to Barcelona. Strange that really! 2015 figures to BCN LPL 232096 LBA 76461 NCL 66132 this suggests to me that Leeds and Newcastle was underserved so room for decent loads/yield, with LPL to get the loads may have put pressure on the yield, My theory anyway.
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Post by monty on Oct 30, 2016 12:40:17 GMT 1
It seems that we can sustain 2 carriers at a push on the same route, even that appears to be excessive. I'm all for competition but there is absolutely no point in having multiple carriers going to the same destination when you're not even getting 5 million passengers p.a, with a few pounds difference between the fares. I'd rather have unserved routes flown than this constant fanfare of new airlines only to bin it after a year. I'm surprised EIR has failed as it offered a totally different business model to RYR. Interlining is much different to spending a few days in Dublin.
I think Blue Air are doing it right as all but one of their destinations have no competition, but the prices are very reasonable. If another carrier comes in and starts the woefully underserved Scandinavia and Germany then they will probably do well too. Copenhagen with Norwegian should have worked, but again after about 1 year they were out.
Thanks for the info Proflyer, it's a shame to see you guys go.
And agreed; portacabins and cow sheds may have been acceptable in the 80's, but not now. I can't think of any other major business in the region that accepts to be in premises like that.
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