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Post by baldyman26 on Oct 30, 2016 15:06:30 GMT 1
I'm struggling to see how the terminal has anything to do with airlines leaving, yes I think it's time improvements were made, but it currently serves its purpose well, getting passengers on and off the plane. Remember it wasn't long ago that the airport was in a pretty precarious position. The problem is the airlines not seeing Liverpool as an option for hub routes, or Liverpool not being cost effective for such routes. It's ok saying that we have to have such routes, but the top and bottom of it is they simply don't work, and until the people at the top work out why, there is no point targeting such operations
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 17:28:43 GMT 1
Liverpool Airport seems to do well with the low cost airlines, other full service ones seem to struggle, although I'm still amazed out of all the departures how KLM didn't work from here, however if LoCos are the best model, stick to it and expand it, and if EZY and FR are not too quick in coming forward with new routes, nurture Blue Air and Wizz, and whoever else shows inspiration. However even if its LoCos the travelling public do not want portacabins, and metal bridges which by the way your often left to stand in after boarding pass check.
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as350
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Post by as350 on Oct 30, 2016 23:35:16 GMT 1
Bad news for LPL. But realistically I expected it.
Liverpool City Region has an expanding business case for EI and others to operate here, even head to head with FR. But the idea of providing the customs pre-clearance for the US at DUB and pushing that as a business model was flawed. I'd personally just drive half an hour to MAN and jump on a direct AA service to JFK. They should've opted for a different approach to it to counter the biggest perceived threat, FR. I never flew the LPL-DUB route with EI, but I can imagine that it was not filled with people connecting to the US but mainly with point to point travellers on both business and leisure (please correct me if I'm wrong).
LPL is a spoke that needs a connection to a hub and it needs to be with Star Alliance or Oneworld carriers. LHR won't happen for a while so maybe they should focus on links into CDG with AF, AMS with KL or FRA/MUC/BER with LH (or subsidiaries and codeshares). DUB isn't the hub they should be looking at in my opinion. The potential in Liverpool as a region and the airport to support this is there. A mixed loco, charter and full service business model is entirely viable - it's successful at many lessser airports and cities of lesser economic clout across Europe.
LPL is now in need of investment into surface transport and air bridges to be taken seriously as an international airport by the airlines and passengers it wants to attract. A coherent strategy is also needed, one which states where LPL wants to be in ten, twenty, thirty years and it needs to be ambitious and serious because naming the place after a rock star (albeit a very good one) and processing people through portakabins isn't enough for the big players.
Ah well, the Reds are doing well so that's cheered me up!
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Post by ametyst on Oct 31, 2016 0:44:38 GMT 1
Liverpool should basically stay as it is. Stop wasting energy on trying to get and maintain hub connections, Liverpool, as a city, is adequately served by Manchester in this regard.
LPL needs to nurture and further expand its Lo-Cost portfolio, this is what brings the passengers in and get them to spend.
Air bridges are a waste of time, and unnecessary expense, at Liverpool. Any money that needs to be invested should be channeled into replacing the portakabins with a more permanent expanded structure, refurbish the holding gates and enlarge and improve the border control and arrivals area.
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Post by bluefox on Oct 31, 2016 1:04:44 GMT 1
Liverpool needs to nurture and further expand all of its portfolio.
Air Bridges will be right at the right time. Money that needs to be invested should be across the board at incremental intervals according to management prudence.
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highfly
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Post by highfly on Oct 31, 2016 1:25:12 GMT 1
This Aer Lingus route isn't necessarily a big loss is it? We still have the Dublin route served by Ryanair. To be fair I'd much rather fly on a 737 than an ATR. I don't think Dublin was necessarily a hub either. You could only connect to a handful of connections across the Atlantic. Not really global, such as AMS, CDG or LHR. To get a workable hub connection, I think we need a route to an unserved hub, such as Frankfurt, where a low cost carrier doesn't take all the yields for the point to point traffic. Another option is if this ever comes off: www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/11871399/Ryanair-looks-to-team-up-with-long-haul-carriers.htmlIf easyjet did the same with KLM, we'd be onto a winner!
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Post by ametyst on Oct 31, 2016 2:08:10 GMT 1
Liverpool cannot support hub connection flights.This has been proved time after time. Liverpool does not have the businessmen needed to support such operations. They will not survive just on leisure travellers.
Most businessmen working for Merseyside businesses live in the Southport/Formby, Wirral and Cheshire areas. Therefore, Manchester Airport is a better option for these travellers and more so when bridge tolls are introduced when the Mersey Gateway opens.
Forget about air bridges. They are expensive, not required by Liverpool's Lo-Cost operators and they are pretty useless in servicing the Bombardier and Embraer regional aircraft types which would be used on any hub connection from Liverpool.
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Post by andyh on Oct 31, 2016 9:18:49 GMT 1
Liverpool cannot support hub connection flights.This has been proved time after time. Liverpool does not have the businessmen needed to support such operations. They will not survive just on leisure travellers. Most businessmen working for Merseyside businesses live in the Southport/Formby, Wirral and Cheshire areas. Therefore, Manchester Airport is a better option for these travellers and more so when bridge tolls are introduced when the Mersey Gateway opens. Forget about air bridges. They are expensive, not required by Liverpool's Lo-Cost operators and they are pretty useless in servicing the Bombardier and Embraer regional aircraft types which would be used on any hub connection from Liverpool. How exactly is Manchester a better option for someone living in Southport or Formby? Tunnel and bridge tolls are of little relevance too when talking business travel because the individuals concerned will just claim them back as expenses. Liverpool is just as good an option for many of the areas you listed, so there must be something around these travellers' perceptions (outdated perhaps) of the airport. Road connections and the appearance of the final mile in to the airport have to be improved.
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Post by eye2eye5 on Oct 31, 2016 9:43:45 GMT 1
I agree Andy. Liverpool road planners need to start removing the miriad of small junctions on main trunk routes in the city to speed up traffic flows. The Ford road would be much improved without the junction opposite the "Goals" centre and I wouldn't be averse to taking out the lights/junction by Morrisons either! Edge Lane suffers from the same issues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 11:01:53 GMT 1
Bad news for LPL. But realistically I expected it. Liverpool City Region has an expanding business case for EI and others to operate here, even head to head with FR. But the idea of providing the customs pre-clearance for the US at DUB and pushing that as a business model was flawed. I'd personally just drive half an hour to MAN and jump on a direct AA service to JFK. They should've opted for a different approach to it to counter the biggest perceived threat, FR. I never flew the LPL-DUB route with EI, but I can imagine that it was not filled with people connecting to the US but mainly with point to point travellers on both business and leisure (please correct me if I'm wrong). LPL is a spoke that needs a connection to a hub and it needs to be with Star Alliance or Oneworld carriers. LHR won't happen for a while so maybe they should focus on links into CDG with AF, AMS with KL or FRA/MUC/BER with LH (or subsidiaries and codeshares). DUB isn't the hub they should be looking at in my opinion. The potential in Liverpool as a region and the airport to support this is there. A mixed loco, charter and full service business model is entirely viable - it's successful at many lessser airports and cities of lesser economic clout across Europe. LPL is now in need of investment into surface transport and air bridges to be taken seriously as an international airport by the airlines and passengers it wants to attract. A coherent strategy is also needed, one which states where LPL wants to be in ten, twenty, thirty years and it needs to be ambitious and serious because naming the place after a rock star (albeit a very good one) and processing people through portakabins isn't enough for the big players. Ah well, the Reds are doing well so that's cheered me up! That's if an LHR link ever happens, frankly I don't think LHR are really that interested if they have air link to Liverpool or and of the other regional airports they got on board, they just wanted to bolster their support for expansion. Maybe I'm being cynical !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 11:07:43 GMT 1
Liverpool should basically stay as it is. Stop wasting energy on trying to get and maintain hub connections, Liverpool, as a city, is adequately served by Manchester in this regard. LPL needs to nurture and further expand its Lo-Cost portfolio, this is what brings the passengers in and get them to spend. Air bridges are a waste of time, and unnecessary expense, at Liverpool. Any money that needs to be invested should be channeled into replacing the portakabins with a more permanent expanded structure, refurbish the holding gates and enlarge and improve the border control and arrivals area. Personally I think a few air bridges would be worthwhile, in a perception thing, it would put Liverpool Airport on a level with others, and Easyjet use them anyway. I don't know about Wizz or Blue Air, they may, I know FR don't. However before air bridges, the gates need improving, The Easyjet ones are passable, Ryanair ones are frankly awful.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 11:11:31 GMT 1
Listening to Smooth FM this morning Aer Lingus ads advertising Dublin from Manchester, no mention of Liverpool at all, which was not a great surprise. I imagine they made their decision some time ago, in order to plan a radio ad.
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Post by LPL on Oct 31, 2016 13:02:35 GMT 1
This Aer Lingus route isn't necessarily a big loss is it? We still have the Dublin route served by Ryanair. To be fair I'd much rather fly on a 737 than an ATR. I don't think Dublin was necessarily a hub either. You could only connect to a handful of connections across the Atlantic. Not really global, such as AMS, CDG or LHR. To get a workable hub connection, I think we need a route to an unserved hub, such as Frankfurt, where a low cost carrier doesn't take all the yields for the point to point traffic. Another option is if this ever comes off: www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/leisure/11871399/Ryanair-looks-to-team-up-with-long-haul-carriers.htmlIf easyjet did the same with KLM, we'd be onto a winner! Most German cities have onward connections and can be classed as a hub, a hub of various sizes granted.
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Post by LPL on Oct 31, 2016 13:06:25 GMT 1
Liverpool cannot support hub connection flights.This has been proved time after time. Liverpool does not have the businessmen needed to support such operations. They will not survive just on leisure travellers. Most businessmen working for Merseyside businesses live in the Southport/Formby, Wirral and Cheshire areas. Therefore, Manchester Airport is a better option for these travellers and more so when bridge tolls are introduced when the Mersey Gateway opens. Forget about air bridges. They are expensive, not required by Liverpool's Lo-Cost operators and they are pretty useless in servicing the Bombardier and Embraer regional aircraft types which would be used on any hub connection from Liverpool. Southport/Formby are at least 90 minutes away from MAN and that presumes no traffic delays. Whereas LPL is 30 minutes away down the Expressway. Also the above doesnt apply for businessman from the rest of the world, they just want to get where they are going (LPL) do what they have to and get home.
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Post by LPL on Oct 31, 2016 13:08:56 GMT 1
Personally I think a few air bridges would be worthwhile, in a perception thing, it would put Liverpool Airport on a level with others, and Easyjet use them anyway. I don't know about Wizz or Blue Air, they may, I know FR don't. However before air bridges, the gates need improving, The Easyjet ones are passable, Ryanair ones are frankly awful. They could just connect the terminal as it is now up with the airbridges, would be many, and see where that gets us.
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