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Post by LPL on Aug 23, 2017 12:47:38 GMT 1
They should set up a pay station in the terminal in departures, The airport has asked the bridge company to do just that.
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Post by harbourcotter on Aug 23, 2017 12:50:07 GMT 1
But theres the rub. Passengers enroute to the airport via the bridge from the South will probably not know about the charges, at least initially before the complaints flood in. I can predict numerous complaints in which the airport will become embroiled. I presume that some sort of confusing information will be on the bridge approach about payment, but this may be too late for many passengers. What if you do not have a mobile phone with you - the same problem arises if you are going on holiday and you will have this very expensive surcharge. Thinking about the issue, the airport should promulgate details of the surchange to passengers to make them aware, and also advise them of alternative routes to avoid the tolls (i.e. M6, M62), if they wish to do so. Although again, this will still miss many people who do not look at the airport website. Manchester airport won't really be an issue as the majority of people will simply use the same routing M6/M62 to avoid the toll. London is not comparable as there are so many exclusions plus It has the best public transport in Europe to make alternatives not just feasible but quicker and cheaper, although its still free to travel the M4/M25 to Heathrow/Gatwick etc. Could you imagine the negative media coverage if the M4 or M60 was tolled?
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Post by LPL on Aug 23, 2017 12:55:06 GMT 1
If the citys residents know about this and how to get around it then those who live south of the river will know about it too. Ignorance is no excuse.
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Post by harbourcotter on Aug 23, 2017 12:55:33 GMT 1
Additionally, You appear to be lucky in getting info about the new bridge. I have never heard an advert on the Radio and I am extensively on the internet and I have never had any information about the bridge whatsoever. As I said, numerous people will be unaware. The advertising is not widespread at all. Although they appear from what you have said to be targeting a particular radio station. Tough if you don't listen to it. For passengers outside the area, who will mainly be affected, it would be even more unlikely that they are aware.
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Post by harbourcotter on Aug 23, 2017 12:58:58 GMT 1
LPL, I work in Liverpool, and yet to the best of my knowledge, no-one there knows about it, although I will tell them. I appreciate some in Liverpool will know, but please don't presume just because you know that the rest of Liverpool also knows. Trust me, they don't. They will however when the negative publicity arrives.
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Post by LPL on Aug 23, 2017 13:09:24 GMT 1
Just Googled it and they are advertising/articles on the Radio City Group, Liverpool Echo which will also include the Welsh edition of the Daily Post, Widnes/St Helens Radio, Chester Chronicle, Chester Standard, Warrington Guardian, Rhyl Journal, Runcorn and Widnes World, You Tube, the BBC, Halton Council, Facebook and Twitter.
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Post by andyh on Aug 23, 2017 13:17:54 GMT 1
But theres the rub. Passengers enroute to the airport via the bridge from the South will probably not know about the charges, at least initially before the complaints flood in. I can predict numerous complaints in which the airport will become embroiled. I presume that some sort of confusing information will be on the bridge approach about payment, but this may be too late for many passengers. What if you do not have a mobile phone with you - the same problem arises if you are going on holiday and you will have this very expensive surcharge. Thinking about the issue, the airport should promulgate details of the surchange to passengers to make them aware, and also advise them of alternative routes to avoid the tolls (i.e. M6, M62), if they wish to do so. Although again, this will still miss many people who do not look at the airport website. Manchester airport won't really be an issue as the majority of people will simply use the same routing M6/M62 to avoid the toll. London is not comparable as there are so many exclusions plus It has the best public transport in Europe to make alternatives not just feasible but quicker and cheaper, although its still free to travel the M4/M25 to Heathrow/Gatwick etc. Could you imagine the negative media coverage if the M4 or M60 was tolled? Sorry harbourcotter, I disagree. If people can be aware of the toll enough to travel M6 / M62 to get to Manchester, then the same applies in the reverse direction. London is comparable in terms of payment options and process. A small proportion of the daily passengers crossing the bridge will be heading for the airport, and it only becomes a surcharge if you fail to pay. I would hope that the signage will be clear both on the approach to the bridge and beyond and agree that there should be adequate notices at the airport - perhaps a leaflet handed out at check-in or security. I'm not sure who in this day and age doesn't take a mobile on holiday with them, but in the event they do I believe that pay phones are still available in the terminal and I would also hope that one of the retailers in departures might start offering a 'payzone' service, which is another 'in person' payment option. I do agree with you that it should be as easy and painless as possible in order to minimise the opportunity for complaints.
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Post by eye2eye5 on Aug 23, 2017 13:21:48 GMT 1
LPL, whilst I respect your knowledge here, I too have seen or heard very little with regards to bridge tolls and I live in Rainhill. The airport can't rely on the bridge company as they have their own agenda i.e. To maximise income. Passengers will associate fines with travelling to Liverpool airport, the airport need to be pro active to limit reputational risk. They are not an arm of the bridge operator.
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Post by optimum1878 on Aug 23, 2017 14:47:39 GMT 1
They should set up a pay station in the terminal in departures, like where the fast track machines are. You should just be able to put your registration number in and pay the toll with a contactless card or loose change or something. And have clear signs earning that if you have crossed either of the bridges that it's your last chance to pay before leaving the country. Totally agree with that,I was in London at the weekend and we used contactless on our bank cards to use the buses and tube to tavel around which then are used the same way as the oyster card,simples.
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Post by vanguard on Aug 23, 2017 15:07:40 GMT 1
Hi all, Could we get back to the title of this section "Teminal/Airport Developments" not Mersey Gateway Project.
Any more comments should be in Non Aviation section.
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Post by eye2eye5 on Aug 23, 2017 16:55:37 GMT 1
I note your comment, Vanguard, but I feel that this issue directly affects the airport and is too important to be buried in a sub section.
I note from comments elsewhere that the methodology is modelled on that of the Dartford tunnel, which has used it for two years and where a significant number of fines have been issued. The airport needs to be pro active here and as suggested by Highfly, there should be a payment booth set up in the airport terminal. If not addressed, the press will have a field day and it will not be positive comment for the airport.
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Post by bluefox on Aug 23, 2017 17:51:44 GMT 1
There should be more than one payment booth in the Terminal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 18:10:34 GMT 1
I have just posted the comment below on another site, referring to the future tolling system for both Runcorn bridges. It's worth trying to understand the implications for airport passengers crossing the bridges. Having looked at the tolling information for the first time, I'm puzzled. From what I understand, unless I am registered with Merseyflow (and it will cost me £35 up front for the privilege) then I have until 23.59 the day after I cross the bridge to pay the fee. There aren't any toll booths, so I either have to go on line, ring up or go to an office in Runcorn. If I fail to pay on time then I am hit with a £60 fine. I'm imagining a family travelling from North Wales to catch a flight at the airport, haven't crossed the bridge before and are quite tight on the flight time. Are they really expected to think about contacting Merseyflow by one of the options above when their minds are elsewhere? There must be a better way. I have just looked at setting up a Merseyflow account to cater for my occasional (say once every month) crossings, but I don't seem to be able to do so unless I pay up front. Who is regulating the tolling process? I think this is how the Dartford crossing works .
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Post by maverick on Aug 23, 2017 23:15:14 GMT 1
Just picking up a few of the points made in this topic.
Surely any driver making an unfamiliar journey would check the route beforehand? This is what I did when I used the Dartford crossing last year and paid for my crossings in advance.
Does not a sat-nav warn of a toll en route? I know some do.
Dartford's system is slightly different. It's free during the night and it recognises disabled tax registered cars via the DVLA reg. With the gateway bridge you have to be registered for a blue badge crossing but what if the disabled person isn't with you? You are actually expected to ring up and tell them you need to pay!
As regards the airport helping the customer to pay the toll to avoid bad press; have you seen the massive amount of bad press it gets now with its own drop off/parking and stopping policies? And it does sod all to counter any of that.
The set up of the tolling system on the bridge to me smacks of an interest in people messing up and getting fined. What's wrong with a say, 28 days to pay regime, even at a slightly increased rate, say £4?
Personally I think the tolls are abhorrent as the road is part of the national network. And what's the difference between the M6 Barton bridge and the Gateway? - except one is tolled.
The bridge cost is a drop in the ocean compared to government spending in London. And don't get me started on HS2!
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Post by northbynorthwest on Aug 23, 2017 23:54:54 GMT 1
I believe that satcom systems will only pick up anything in use at the time of the latest update. So any tolls on the bridge will not show up until the next revision. That is the case with my Garmin which is a couple of years old.
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