RESA (Runway End Safety Area), Dungeon Lane, Bailey's Lane.

[frlpl91]

seen in the echo fro a few days now about dungeon lane closing ?

i believe it was still be accessible through baileys lane won’t it
cause how will the aircraft traffic controllers access it and the people that live down there

[viscount]

from 16th November 2018 - to which I've added a few bits of more recent information

ICAO set out guidelines based on minimum requirements. Member States are free to exceed these guidelines should they wish. The C.A.A. revised their RESA rules in the aftermath of the AAIB report into the BAW Boeing 777 that undershot at Heathrow due to fuel icing in a rapid descent. Part of the AAIB findings were that the accident had been totally survivable purely because the aircraft had landed on flat ground with no obstructions within the airport boundaries. The advice being that all civil airports controlled by the CAA over certain capacity should establish a large RESA area in the undershoot area. If the LHR incident was transferred to Liverpool it would apparently have been somewhere in the field behind the mound as the '777 landing was not only well before the threshold, but also to one side of the extended centre-line. I suspect airport use by passenger numbers is used by the CAA as a criteria (rather than ICAO runway length) as there are busy UK airports with shortish runways (eg LJLA, Luton (before extension), Leeds) and quiet airports with very long runways (eg Doncaster/Sheffield, Prestwick, Manston when open), the new CAA requirements well exceed the ICAO minimum. I strongly suspect that 5 million pax per year as being the CAA 'trigger' for establishing an enlarged RESA.

The CAA laid down that for Cat.III 'Autoland' ILS operations a Sterile area (no buildings, parked vehicles etc area) should expand at a 3 degree spreading area from the landing threshold. When enlarged RESA areas were first being measured, this 3 degree line was found to cut through the 'original' mound south of the centreline - the mound being remoulded a little further south. A re-assessment of this several years later closed the mound altogether. The thing I never quite comprehended is while by definition a RESA is flat 'sterile' area totally free from obstructions, the original mound area on the corner of the road was raised with 2 metre high banks around it to prevent access and then large concrete blocks to close the southerly extension. The extended RESA also has a number of maturing trees which would rip any aircraft landing on the area to shreds. I suspect, but have not tried measuring it (on a map), that the ICAO minimium RESA is just within the airport boundary, the CAA RESA at the 27 end extends as far as the horse fields. Cannot recall of ever reading about the minimum RESA width beyond a 3 degree spreading line, but common sense suggests that if the flat open land is there include it in the sterile area.

As 'Woody66' has noticed looking at a map or GoogleEarth, there is a problem at Liverpool in that two public roads are within the proposed RESA extension. The one crossing the RESA across the runway centreline at right angles is to be closed (and in my opinion should have been closed to vehicles years ago). The other runs inside the RESA area, just south of the approach lights, but well within the RESA southern boundary. I have seen various proposals for this over the years, including closure by controlled barriers, but it would appear that some sort of compromise must have been reached with the CAA over this. There is also a 'green lane' (a right of way that was never 'paved') at right angles to the centreline across the fields. As a 'right of way' this has had to be legally moved. The new right of way (not sure if footpath or bridalway status) will run from Hale Road, behind the horse fields towards the Mersey Way LDP, and is a designated 'feeder' path for the LDP.

I repeat as stated in an earlier post I have no access to official decisions, rules or plans (other than those made public) nor ever worked on the airport, much of the above being gathered in casual conversion over the years.

Sections of the Liverpool Airport Operator's Manual (dated November 2015) are on the Internet:

www.liverpoolairport.com/media/1559/aerodrome-manual-part-c-v1-1-15-dated-251115.pdf

Included are the current RESA dimensions (which are more complex measurements than seems necessary depending on undershoot or overshoot, landing or departing). Interestingly, on the final page what appears to be the 3 degree line I refer to above (but it is not stated what this line is for!). Interesting details (some slightly out of date in places eg the ILS Category on 27), but worth a browse through to get an idea of what sort of information is required by the CAA to be in the Aerodrome Manual.

There has been a map on NWAN of one of the RESA fencing proposals, but 'search' does not locate it and it may not be of the approved proposal anyhow. My current understanding of what is about to happen (but I could be wrong in the detail) is that a 3m high chain-link fence with barbed wire angled topping is to be erected around the boundaries of the large field that is bounded on the north by Hale Road, the west by the entrance lane into the GA/Viscount Drive as far as the crash gate. The next section across the centre-line will keep the low 'frangible' wooden fence, but the current public road totally sealed off, shut to all vehicles and pedestrians. On the south side will follow the existing roadway from the existing small road junction (despite this being inside the desired RESA zone) and on the west edge by the horse fields with the new LDP link path outside the fence-line. At one time the field to the south of the extended centreline was also to be partially fenced-in, however I'm not sure now if those plans are current and if they are, if it is for a tall chain link or low wood-stake fence. The RESA fenced area will have absolutely no public access; all hedges, shrubs and trees will be cut down and grass maintained at a height to discourage bird activity (as is the case on the main airfield). Having stated that, it may only be within the 3 degree cone that no hedges, trees, shrubs and grass cutting rules will actually apply, The RESA fenced field being wider than that.

There are four pages of posts on the RESA topic (and a few stray posts picked up by the site search engine) if you go to 'Search' option at the top of the NWAN page and enter the dates 01/07/14 to 01/07/19 and enter RESA in the panel 'include all the words'.

[blueaircraft79]

An early start this morning so decided to take a drive down to the new junction and take some photo's. 





































Thanks for looking

[davecalveley]

Love the double yellows in shots 6 and 8....in and out of the grid indentation ...they have probably not gone straight across in case anybody owns a unicycle and would park there..painted by J.OBSWORTH and Co??

[liverpoolman1]

I looked to see pics of the departure of LFC to America from LJLA today but to no avail. Don't tell me they went from down the road! Having supported LFC since 1946 - yes 1946, when I saw them beat Derby County - I expect the club to be equally loyal to me and our own airport. Tut tut, Mr Klopp.

[optimum1878]

Jul 16, 2019 12:36:00 GMT 1 liverpoolman1 said:

I looked to see pics of the departure of LFC to America from LJLA today but to no avail. Don't tell me they went from down the road! Having supported LFC since 1946 - yes 1946, when I saw them beat Derby County - I expect the club to be equally loyal to me and our own airport. Tut tut, Mr Klopp.

Get the kleenex out in a minute liverpoolman,lol.

[robaero]

Jul 16, 2019 12:36:00 GMT 1 liverpoolman1 said:

I looked to see pics of the departure of LFC to America from LJLA today but to no avail. Don't tell me they went from down the road! Having supported LFC since 1946 - yes 1946, when I saw them beat Derby County - I expect the club to be equally loyal to me and our own airport. Tut tut, Mr Klopp.

I have seen mention that they have flown out of Manchester on an Atlas Air 747/400.

[viscount]

My understanding is that after several summers when they flew out of Liverpool to the USA or Far East with an en-route fuel stop - which was not liked, the club now request a guarantee of direct flights. The operators cannot provide this from Liverpool - even though, when conditions are right, it is feasible.

[Ryanairflyer]

Jul 16, 2019 14:48:05 GMT 1 viscount said:

My understanding is that after several summers when they flew out of Liverpool to the USA or Far East with an en-route fuel stop - which was not liked, the club now request a guarantee of direct flights. The operators cannot provide this from Liverpool - even though, when conditions are right, it is feasible.

It should be noted that Everton also flew out of Manchester for their recent Africa friendly on an Air X A340-300. So both clubs have chosen to do this recently on long haul flights to as described I assume avoid potential fuel stops

[onanotherplane]

Jul 16, 2019 16:47:07 GMT 1 Ryanairflyer said:

Jul 16, 2019 14:48:05 GMT 1 viscount said:

My understanding is that after several summers when they flew out of Liverpool to the USA or Far East with an en-route fuel stop - which was not liked, the club now request a guarantee of direct flights. The operators cannot provide this from Liverpool - even though, when conditions are right, it is feasible.

It should be noted that Everton also flew out of Manchester for their recent Africa friendly on an Air X A340-300. So both clubs have chosen to do this recently on long haul flights to as described I assume avoid potential fuel stops

Why is it necessary for fuel stop(s) if they depart from L'pool and not the case if the flight is from Manchester ?

[kuga59]

Jul 16, 2019 14:05:29 GMT 1 robaero said:

Jul 16, 2019 12:36:00 GMT 1 liverpoolman1 said:

I looked to see pics of the departure of LFC to America from LJLA today but to no avail. Don't tell me they went from down the road! Having supported LFC since 1946 - yes 1946, when I saw them beat Derby County - I expect the club to be equally loyal to me and our own airport. Tut tut, Mr Klopp.

I have seen mention that they have flown out of Manchester on an Atlas Air 747/400.

From FR24 it would appear to be B747_400 N322SG
Landed 11.00 am in South Bend est

[eye2eye5]

Jul 16, 2019 17:40:36 GMT 1 onanotherplane said:

Jul 16, 2019 16:47:07 GMT 1 Ryanairflyer said:

It should be noted that Everton also flew out of Manchester for their recent Africa friendly on an Air X A340-300. So both clubs have chosen to do this recently on long haul flights to as described I assume avoid potential fuel stops

Why is it necessary for fuel stop(s) if they depart from L'pool and not the case if the flight is from Manchester ?

Runway length may limit the amount of fuel which may be carried. In turn, that will limit the distance which may be flown, particularly with older generation jets.

[vanguard]

Jul 16, 2019 17:41:58 GMT 1 kuga59 said:

Jul 16, 2019 14:05:29 GMT 1 robaero said:

I have seen mention that they have flown out of Manchester on an Atlas Air 747/400.

From FR24 it would appear to be B747_400 N322SG
Landed 11.00 am in South Bend est

Looking where LFC's last match is on July 24th (sporting Lisbon@Yankee Stadium,NY) it could be quite conceivable they might

fly back into LJLA,fingers crossed,end of speculation

[kuga59]

Why can’t they use Liverpool? About 2500ft of runway,  tons of fuel and a full 747. That’s the problem with using Liverpool. The weather could also impact any operation.
However as mentioned above landing back in Liverpool is a possibility.

[vanguard]

The runway at LJLA is 7500ft long,just enough for landing