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Post by mokum1 on Dec 22, 2015 12:53:13 GMT 1
talking to an EZY captain in november about cat111 & he seemed to think that at that moment in time the upgrade to full operation on cat111 was not cost effective against what the airport would gain.hopefully things have changed as it could help regarding enticing new airlines. he did tell me that a fully operational EZY A320 can land in minima of 75m on cat111A subject to the crew capabilities.cat11 minima at LJLA is 300,150,150 apparently.
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Post by viscount on Dec 22, 2015 14:25:33 GMT 1
There are two separate issues here as far as I am aware. One is the re-establishing of Cat. III as a facility to 'our' operating airlines and enhance the Airport's prestige, the other demanded by the CAA is the establishment of a RESA (Runway end secure area).
The requirement for a RESA at major UK airports (which I strongly suspect interprets as above 5m pax per annum) stems from the recommendations after the Boeing 777 cold fuel incident at Heathrow (G-YMMM 2008). The passengers and crew all walked away from the under-shot landing because it was flat land with no obstructions, posts, fences, mature trees, roads or vehicles. The RESA zone is drawn on a map as two lines at a set angle from a position at the threshold, forming a widening 'cone' shape. Again, my understanding rather than known fact is that several years ago, as the Airport passed the 5m pax mark, there were cars parked on the original mound location (at the meeting point of Dungeon and Bailey's Lane) within this safety zone. To prevent this, rather than frangible fencing (which as we know does not last long beside public roads), a 2m bank was constructed within the RESA line to prevent public parking, and the parking pushed back some 20m towards the river out of the RESA zone.
As the Airport is now growing again in passenger numbers, the issue of establishing a secure RESA is again on the agenda. Maybe in the mean-time the rules have been amended, I don't know, but it would appear to me that the earth banks within the RESA have become an issue (they always concerned me given the effect of a solid bank on an aircraft sliding on its belly as the result of an undershot landing). We have known for some time that the days of the '27 mound' were numbered, so the current action is no surprise. As the trees behind the '27 mound' have grown considerably in the past few years, I would think their days are numbered too. Ironic, once they are no longer an obstruction to photos from the '27 mound' they too will be flattened I would imagine.
What I don't yet know is what happens next. Will the flattened 'mound' be available for parking again? I fancy not, and that the flattening is only the first act in several months of progressive change in that area, with full-height security fencing (the currently planned alignment of this fance has not it would seem yet been made public), with road closure/reopening (which is/was in the Planning Law consultation stage) and access to the Control Tower by vehicles being access restricted by some form of barrier. The land to the river side of the RESA fencing will still have public access, ensured by the Merseyway LDP - but that access to the footpath will be pedestrian only. The original plans of several years ago show a new access path from Hale Road to the LDP the airport side of the Horses Farm field (will mean something to those that have walked that area) - I don't know if this is still envisaged.
I am not privy to any plans, nor involved in any way (other than as a 27 mound' user), just recall what was stated several years ago and have put facts from different conversations together.
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Post by viscount on Mar 24, 2016 0:19:39 GMT 1
Given the recent changes to spotting viewpoints around the airport perimeter, we really should on NWAN have details and a good map, as many other enthusiast sites do.
I do not possess the computer skills to manipulate location numbers, dotted walking routes, arrows, location names etc onto a Googlemap satellite image. I would love to hear from any members (by PM initially) who feel they can help, so that we can work together to create up-to-date information both text and map(s), and be in a position to react quickly when there are future changes (as undoubtedly there will be).
On the subject of changes to viewpoints, the Mersey Way, cliff-top path that gave access to the south side of the 09 approach, that was created last summer by rebuilding the airport fence adjacent to the ILS/Localiser beam aerials, was found by myself last Friday to be closed. Now totally impassable due to the old route having collapsed down the cliff, leaving an unstable 4+ft drop and climb which it is impossible to go around. Rerouting the new airport fence would be a solution, but how far in onto airport land to create a stable path past the collapse would be could be open to question. Meanwhile the Mersey Way is closed, the length from the Sailing Club to Dungeon Lane/Cast Iron Shore broken at the 09 threshold fence.
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Post by DJA737 on Nov 8, 2016 20:13:44 GMT 1
Given the recent changes to spotting viewpoints around the airport perimeter, we really should on NWAN have details and a good map, as many other enthusiast sites do. I have sent you a private message in regards to this. Daniel
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Post by clifftop on Jul 12, 2017 16:05:21 GMT 1
Did we ever find out why the Mound was blocked? People are now parking on the field next to the approach lights.
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Post by vanguard on Jul 12, 2017 18:26:54 GMT 1
Did we ever find out why the Mound was blocked? People are now parking on the field next to the approach lights. I thought it was a safety zone not a parking lot!!
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Post by Airbus A346 on Jul 13, 2017 16:31:28 GMT 1
Did we ever find out why the Mound was blocked? People are now parking on the field next to the approach lights. I thought it was a safety zone not a parking lot!! ....... it is, the wooden barrier was replaced and the local "brain deads" just vandalize it and remove it. Last week there was a Mondeo taxi sat on the the double yellows under the approach with a moron and two kids sat on the roof. I sounded my horn in an effort to get passed and got muttering and abuse. The same applies to the the crash gate, constantly obstructed with vehicles, but in fairness the Airport has to take some blame because there are no signs saying - DO NOT OBSTRUCT. The people concerned are so thick they do not realize they are putting aircraft safety and their own safety at risk. If the CAA had a clampdown and insisted that the old mound was a no go area why is this being allowed to carry on ? What are the local Constabulary doing about it ? Nothing ..... may be some stiff fines and prosecutions would be a deterrent ? ? The sooner the area is closed off the better in my opinion. Rant over and out.
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Post by vanguard on Jul 13, 2017 21:12:51 GMT 1
I thought it was a safety zone not a parking lot!! ....... it is, the wooden barrier was replaced and the local "brain deads" just vandalize it and remove it. Last week there was a Mondeo taxi sat on the the double yellows under the approach with a moron and two kids sat on the roof. I sounded my horn in an effort to get passed and got muttering and abuse. The same applies to the the crash gate, constantly obstructed with vehicles, but in fairness the Airport has to take some blame because there are no signs saying - DO NOT OBSTRUCT. The people concerned are so thick they do not realize they are putting aircraft safety and their own safety at risk. If the CAA had a clampdown and insisted that the old mound was a no go area why is this being allowed to carry on ? What are the local Constabulary doing about it ? Nothing ..... may be some stiff fines and prosecutions would be a deterrent ? ? The sooner the area is closed off the better in my opinion. Rant over and out. I agree with all you say Airbus346,the airport security,the airport police and the airport owners should be doing a lot more
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Post by ronturner on Jul 14, 2017 8:14:35 GMT 1
If there was to be an accident one day, there will be a mighty Hoo-Ha and s**t flying in every direction. Until then the authorities just do not care if it means spending one or two pence over the budget for a bit of prevention.
Bit like Grenfell Tower, really!
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Post by baldyman26 on Jul 14, 2017 12:27:11 GMT 1
God forbid anything happening, but lessons are learnt from any accidents, there are always what if's and why didn't they do's.
Whilst always in agreement about the safety aspect of things, imagine one day if all access was stopped, all parking and spotter activities in the area was stopped for security reasons, with the current situation in the world that could be a possibility at any time, then we would have more uproar. There needs to be logic applied yes, there also needs to be a consistent policy from the airport - and i have been there when security have moved cars from the crash gate, but there also needs to be common sense. Aviation will attract people and enthusiasts, we are lucky at Liverpool with regards to how much access we have to view aircraft and 99.9% are not causing any harm or nuisance, the airport should educate and move on the ones that do, but not to the detriment of the ones that don't.
Whilst I am sensible in respect of I won't park anywhere I shouldn't do, I am also fearful that the over reaction of some (and this isn't a statement directed at anybody), could lead to the enjoyment of aviation being taken away from the others. The airport have a huge responsibility to the safety of aircraft and passengers, I presume that everything is being done as it should be.
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Post by vanguard on Jul 14, 2017 14:28:54 GMT 1
What i have seen when i've been rwy 27 end is the people in charge don't seem to be bothered about parking,the CRASH GATE for one, as you say baldyman26 its just lets wait and see and we'll do something when it happens. Vanguard.
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Post by polehill on Nov 2, 2017 22:19:25 GMT 1
Hi, I am going down to Liverpool Airport on Saturday to pick up my grandsons, I was thinking of having a couple of hours of spotting and photography, having read through the thread is there: 1 - Any where to park as I cannot walk far? 2 - A place where good photos can be taken?
Thanks
Polehill
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Post by viscount on Nov 2, 2017 23:13:25 GMT 1
Two places for you to try, both best when 27 (over Hale) is the active. Both have parking and views of activity from beside the car. As it would appear that you are not familiar with the layout, then follow the airport signs to the roundabout where you make decisions as to which car park to use. Go around this and back the way you came. Take first right. Follow this road with Speke housing on your left and airport car parking on your right for a while. Straight-on past the right for the TNT entrance turn. Then after the hangar ends visible above an earth bank, take first (not particularly clear) turn right down a lane. Take right again through open gates into the general aviation signed car park. Pass the mound and park on the right just beyond. Plenty of parking space here, and a good view from the mound of departing and landing traffic. Good photos over the fence-top from the mound too if the sun is obscured. A short walk back out through the gates and right leads immediately to views through a tall 'crash-gate' directly down the taxi-way. We actively discourage parking at the crash-gate though. Alternatively, instead of turning right into the GA, continue straight on, pass through the landing lights, then around a sharpish right bend. On the next straight there are likely to be cars parked on the left in a short lay-by and grass shoulder under half way along. Decent long lens shots of landing traffic on 27, or departing traffic from 09 with the sun behind, over your shoulder. Chances are on a Saturday morning into the afternoon a fair few of the parked cars will be occupied by local 'meerkats', so known due to their habit of popping out of their borrows (cars), looking up and searching the sky with long lensed camera. Do introduce yourself and say "Hi". Chances are anyone sitting, or standing around with the tail-gate open in November is a nwan meercat! There are other locations, such as the short stay car park (right at the Airport roundabout), but that can cost if you run over the 'free' time and requires a walk along the inside of a double fence, so not so good for photos. Be warned though do not even hestitate, let alone stop on the final approach roads or anywhere near the terminal. Photo locations at the 09 (west) end of the runway all require a fair hike to access via Speke Hall NT. Many occasional aviation enthusiast visitors to the Airport overlook an opportunity to visit the excellent 'Speke Airport Heritage Group' on the apron of the former (1939-1986) terminal, now Crowne Plaza Hotel. From the Airport roundabout follow the main dual carriageway out from the Airport, long left bend, new traffic lights, then second exit at the roundabout into an industrial park. Next roundabout right, then a left at the next roundabout back onto a busy dual carriageway. At the big set of traffic lights, either left into the Crowne Plaza Hotel and park in their car park (actually go through the car park and right around the left end of the building through an open low gate/fence before parking). There is a £4 charge for this, although you can cancel the charge by going to reception and entering your car number in their terminal. Alternatively at the traffic lights turn right into the Retail Park and park. Walk back and out across the traffic lights to the Hotel. When you go around the left end of the hotel, you will find parked there are an Avro 748, Percival Prince, Jetstream 41, Bristol Britannia, Gloster Meteor and a couple of nose sections. Likely on a Saturday some of the aircraft will be open. No charge, a donation welcome, but not usually pushed for. Photography is excellent, with opportunities to capture the aircraft against the back-drop of the former terminal - indeed it is time that someone put a set of photos up on nwan forum to show the progress during the summer on the restoration and re-paint of the Avro 748 and Meteor. Do have a chat with anyone who is around, having worked on the aircraft they are knowledgeable people. If you go there first before the 27 end, make sure your Sat Nav is set for the Airport Crowne Plaza, not the City Centre one! Hope you have an interesting day. PS. Looking at your user name if you are coming up the M6 from the Midlands, then if your Sat Nav tells you to use the M56 to access the Airport there is a now a Toll to use the new Mersey Crossing. This is easily avoided by driving a few miles further up the M6 to the M62, then leaving this at the A5300 and following Airport signs. Indeed you may want to use the new crossing one or both ways for the experience and cough-up the Toll(s), about which there has been much discussion on this forum in recent weeks! Map supplied via 'RadiostationX', with many thanks for his effort. '1' is the GA Car Park, '2' marks the Oglet Lane lay-by. The Crowne Plaza site is just beyond the top left corner of the map extract. Using the map you can shorten the route. "Take the last left turn before the Airport parking roundabout" is not an easy instruction to follow for a stranger, which is why the suggested (but unnecessary) double-back.
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Post by polehill on Nov 2, 2017 23:34:53 GMT 1
Thanks Viscount.
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