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Post by LPL on May 16, 2012 13:36:41 GMT 1
I see that AF/KLM and Paris CDG are developing its operation at CDG to enable greater connectivity.
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highfly
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Post by highfly on May 16, 2012 19:52:05 GMT 1
What I believe the problem to be is that for a route to a hub to be successful, it needs to have both passengers terminating at that destination aswell as connecting passengers. The problem with Amsterdam and Paris, is that Easyjet will probably always retain the passengers going to those cities in particular, making the connection to a hub by a mainline carrier impossible.
What I wondered was would Lufthansa be able to make a success of a route to Frankfurt, which is much bigger than schiphol, and they wouldn't have any competition from the Lo-Cos. In addition to that, anna.aero states that there are 125,000 journeys annually to there from Liverpool City Region, surely thats even enough sustain that route not to mention the onward connections!
What are people's thoughts? Everybody seems to be ignoring that possibility. And I am aware they have an operation at Manchester.
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Post by northbynorthwest on May 17, 2012 15:20:57 GMT 1
Highfly is absolutely correct concerning the need to carry BOTH local and connecting passengers through a hub. All Easyjet passengers are point to point, so do not connect through AMS, (well, I know some do but it is a real pain, and fraught with problems if your flight misconnects). KLM failed to gain sufficient local passengers, partly due to the fares offered by Easyjet. I honestly thought that when KLM moved into this market, they would bleed so many local passengers from Easyjet that they would drop LPL-AMS. It just shows how strong the LPL-AMS market really is that Easyjet did not budge. What it came down to was that if KLM could have attracted perhaps another 15-20 local passengers per day from Easyjet, that very well may have been the difference that kept them in LPL. They operate many flights to AMS from other cities with little or no competition, so they had the right mix of passengers. From LPL, unfortunately, the mix was unbalanced and they could not correct it due to the presence of Easyjet.
As regards Lufthansa to FRA, I really cannot see anything in the near term. Airlines are losing ridiculous amounts of money right now due to the cost of jet fuel. It is currently around $111 a barrel and has somewhat leveled off around that price. Until such times as fuel prices drop substantially, I don't see any airlines in any of the alliances attempting to develop a route to one of their hubs from LPL, it is too close to an already established operation at MAN, and is too marginal of an operation, with little chance of a rapid return on investment.
I cannot emphasize just how important the cost of jet fuel is right now to the viability of airlines. I deal with this everyday at work, and am staggered at how fuel prices have risen over the past year. It might sound a little sensational, but many airlines are in a crisis mode right now, cutting costs and trying to ride out the storm that has been in great part occurred due to the rise in fuel prices.
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Post by midland500 on May 17, 2012 23:18:50 GMT 1
northbynorthwest your post 293 was a fair view of the demise of the KLM route ex LPL.
The interesting thing is the 9,000 pax per month flying with KLM a month from LPL with prob 60% connecting onward with KLM seems to be lost to them now as the carryings from MAN have not increased, and in fact seem to be falling as you pointed out with the middle east connex option.
If KLM had thought the 9,000 per month would be heading 30 miles up the road they were badly mistaken.
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Post by northbynorthwest on May 18, 2012 4:15:28 GMT 1
That is a very valid point about the passenger totals out of MAN. I haven't had time to look at them, but assumed that they would rise somewhat proportionally to the amount they typically carried out of LPL. This is especially so because the percentage of transfer passengers on the LPL route was closer to 75 to 80 per cent - that is something like 150 passengers in each direction per day.
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Post by LPL on May 18, 2012 8:58:48 GMT 1
Using the provisional CAA stats for April 2012 and the confirmed ones for April 2011 shows 10% of last years combined total (8367) has disappeared into the ether.
LIVERPOOL
April 2011: 32708
April 2012: 20821
diff: -11887
MAN
April 2011: 54941
April 2012: 58461
diff: 3520
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Post by LPL on May 18, 2012 11:16:25 GMT 1
Then using the CDG stats we are still missing 5718.
LIVERPOOL
April 2011: 8446
April 2012: 8178
diff: -268
MAN
April 2011: 39468
April 2012: 42385
diff: 2917
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Post by mokum1 on Jun 16, 2012 19:21:35 GMT 1
flew home in early feb & was chatting to cabin crew. apparently LPL was one of their favourite rosters,they were very surprised to hear that it was getting dropped & hoped like all of us that one day they will return. apparently a few routes got the chop including miami & milan ?. as a regular commuter to ams the klm experience was excellent,allocated seating,free snacks & drinks & relaxed check-in with seating in lounge at schiphol prior to being bused to stand.none of the free for all & cattle pens on pier H . mrs m could take her handbag separate to flight bag but now it has to be inside. klm passengers were also given free access to the security fastlane at lpl but on more than one occasion the check-in staff had to be reminded of this.
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