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Post by LPL on Apr 17, 2009 2:10:35 GMT 1
The first flight in this morning from AMS, KL1037, showing just 7 seats in KLM Select and 6 in KLM Economy left available. Using the airlines website the KLM Fokker 70 seating layout is 50 seats in KLM Select and 30 seats in KLM Economy giving this flight a 84% LF. Todays last flight in is the most popular. KL1045 (due at 2055) has 6 seats left in KLM Europe Select and 4 in KLM Economy. LF = 88%. |
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Post by northbynorthwest on Apr 17, 2009 17:03:51 GMT 1
The first flight in this morning from AMS, KL1037, showing just 7 seats in KLM Select and 6 in KLM Economy left available. Using the airlines website the KLM Fokker 70 seating layout is 50 seats in KLM Select and 30 seats in KLM Economy giving this flight a 84% LF. Todays last flight in is the most popular. KL1045 (due at 2055) has 6 seats left in KLM Europe Select and 4 in KLM Economy. LF = 88%. The actual load booked on this flight tonight is not as you would think, and is actually quite misleading to most people. They may show selling 50 J-class and 30 Y-class seats - they would love to sell 50 J-class seats, but in reality they sell very few. You logically think that if they display 6 J-class seats for sale and 4 y-class seats, then they have 44 J-class bookings and 26 y-class bookings on KL1045 tonight. You would also think that they are making a fortune on this flight with all those business class fares. However, as with all airlines, it is all smoke and mirrors. They know they won't sell just 30 seats in the back, and will continue to sell Y-class seats in a myriad of fare levels which are all created by a very complicated yield management system. So, this number of 50 J-class and 30 Y-class seats that they show is not set in stone, and will fluctuate continually right up to departure time for each and every flight each and every day. So for KL1045 tonight, yes the load factor is about what you said, but only a handful are actually business class, the rest are economy. Confusing?  You betcha! I've worked for an airline for twenty years now and I still can't understand the fare structures / yield management. |
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Post by LPL on Apr 17, 2009 19:01:13 GMT 1
So the number of passengers is correct but the mix between KLM Europe Select and KLM Economy isn't as it appears.
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Post by midland500 on Apr 17, 2009 19:16:38 GMT 1
So the number of passengers is correct but the mix between KLM Europe Select and KLM Economy isn't as it appears. The Fokker 70 is flying round mostly with 10 seats in business and 70 in economy. So as you say the number of passengers booked (70) is correct but the mix is probably 4 business and 66 economy |
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Post by LPL on Apr 17, 2009 19:39:26 GMT 1
The seat plans I used are the Cityhoppers seat plan off the KLM site for the Fokker 70.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2009 7:53:06 GMT 1
Just used new KLM service to go to Istanbul, left Easter Monday, early morning flight and returned Thursday last flight. Both flights had ok loads considering it is so new, particularly the return, I think i saw a figure of 39 on a piece of offical paper work. The service was efficient, plus free snack/drink offered on-board which is a nice change to the locos.
I am booked with them again 3 more times, 1 is on a trip to Singapore in Dec/Jan. The outward connection is good, but the return actually is not and has got worse due to a schedule change, which now means a 5 hour wait in AMS for the LPL flight home.
I looked into the timings and it seems that the service has been reduced to just 2 a day ? and the timing are quite strange also. I wondered if there was still some sheduling to sort out, does anyone know ?
If the route is already being reduced over the Dec/Jan period, this is not good and reduces connections options also.
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Post by LPL on Apr 18, 2009 11:15:39 GMT 1
If the route is already being reduced over the Dec/Jan period, this is not good and reduces connections options also. It looks as if they are to reduce the frequency to two daily flights in the traditionally quiet business travel period after the new year, Monday 4th January 2010 to Sunday 21st February 2010 after which its back up to three per day. |
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Post by northbynorthwest on Apr 18, 2009 13:32:16 GMT 1
So the number of passengers is correct but the mix between KLM Europe Select and KLM Economy isn't as it appears. The Fokker 70 is flying round mostly with 10 seats in business and 70 in economy. So as you say the number of passengers booked (70) is correct but the mix is probably 4 business and 66 economy I think it was more of a fluke that these numbers appeared to jive on that particular flight. Last time I looked at that flight, which would have been around when LPL was writing about it, it was booked to 3+69. However, to show how misleading these seatmap things are, look at KL1037 on Sunday morning. I have not looked at it, but I presume it will show something like 4-5 Business class fares available and maybe 1-2 economy seat. Actual bookings are 0+77 as of last night. As regards the winter frequencies that carl727uk refers to, these will typically change frequently so far out, so it is certainly not carved in stone. The schedulers will firm up the winter schedules during the summer / early autumn. I suppose a lot will depend on how the world economy does in the meantime, as well as their determination on how the route is performing (which is an ongoing thing with all routes). |
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Post by LPL on Apr 18, 2009 15:03:41 GMT 1
Actual bookings are 0+77 as of last night. Does that mean none in business and 77 in Economy? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2009 10:34:52 GMT 1
For myself I am going to change my return connection at AMS to a KL Manchester flight, its a pity but I dont want to wait 5 hours for the LPL one not after a long haul from Singapore arriving 6 Jan.
I have also noticed KLM inbound at that period from AMS/LPL are the same as EZY. KLM 1015/1040 and 2115/2140 only...EZY 1015/1030 1745/1805 and 2110/2130.
KLMs outbound from LPL is a bit odd 0605/0820 and 1125/1340...thats it
I hope the 3 flights do return
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Post by liparus on Apr 19, 2009 15:26:58 GMT 1
For myself I am going to change my return connection at AMS to a KL Manchester flight, its a pity but I dont want to wait 5 hours for the LPL one not after a long haul from Singapore arriving 6 Jan. Then carl727uk, might I suggest you terminate your SIN-AMS-LPL flight in Schiphol and book onward to LPL with easyJet. You will probably get a very low fare by booking so far in advance and this change will help you avoid the 50 minute drive down the motorway to Liverpool. PS: Enjoy Changi Airport. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2009 14:05:59 GMT 1
Hi..I did think about EZY, but their service is still 10.15, so same as KLM from AMS-LPL
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Post by harbourcotter on Apr 20, 2009 23:31:26 GMT 1
I am going to book 2 flights, one to Houston and the other to Cape Town.
Here are my observations.
Houston. Connection times are excellent. Flights cheaper than from MAN. However, every travel agent tried to book from MAN via newark or Chicago. When I told them I wanted to book from LPL (through Warrington agents) they said I couldnt, when I insisted one stated there definitely wasnt any flights, the other agent took the trouble to find them and was shocked to find that not only could she book from LPL but that the flights via AMS were actually £45 cheaper than via MAN/newark or CHI. She actually stated that she was glad I came in as she now knows about the LPL flights and the cheaper options.
Cape Town. Flight out fine, but on the return leg (In january) there is an 11 hour wait in AMS. Ive not booked this flight yet as I'm not sure whether to book ezy on the return or spend a day in Amsterdam. However I feel that most pax will be put off, and of course either way, its additional expenditure for me. Pulling the 3rd flight, even for a short period I feel is detrimental. Surely they could try this year and if it wasnt a success for these months they could suspend it in future years.
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Post by ronturner on Apr 23, 2009 12:21:58 GMT 1
Re harbourcotter's experience,
Too many years ago to remember, when Dan Air were operating Comet service to Amsterdam from Liverpool, I tried an experiment and visited every travel agent in Liverpool that I could find, on the pretext of wanting to book a flight to Amsterdam. Not one offered the Dan Air service. Mostly offered Manchester and a few connecting via London. Lets hope that things have moved on a bit.
RT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 12:43:57 GMT 1
I am going to book 2 flights, one to Houston and the other to Cape Town. Here are my observations. Houston. Connection times are excellent. Flights cheaper than from MAN. However, every travel agent tried to book from MAN via newark or Chicago. When I told them I wanted to book from LPL (through Warrington agents) they said I couldnt, when I insisted one stated there definitely wasnt any flights, the other agent took the trouble to find them and was shocked to find that not only could she book from LPL but that the flights via AMS were actually £45 cheaper than via MAN/newark or CHI. She actually stated that she was glad I came in as she now knows about the LPL flights and the cheaper options. Cape Town. Flight out fine, but on the return leg (In january) there is an 11 hour wait in AMS. Ive not booked this flight yet as I'm not sure whether to book ezy on the return or spend a day in Amsterdam. However I feel that most pax will be put off, and of course either way, its additional expenditure for me. Pulling the 3rd flight, even for a short period I feel is detrimental. Surely they could try this year and if it wasnt a success for these months they could suspend it in future years. I do agree about the problem in Jan being only 3 flights, makes KL via AMS less attractive as some connections now are not good. Why would you wait in Amsterdam for hours ? |
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