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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 12:20:12 GMT 1
Between 1997 and 2006 Manchesters passenger numbers rose from from 15.9m to 22.2m. There was growth every year except 2002. During the same period Liverpool's rose from 0.6m to 5.4m. Since 2007, passengers have fallen at Manchester to 17.7m last year, a drop of about 20%, in the same period Liverpool's dropped from 5.4m to 5.0m, a drop of 7%.
If Manchester is being robbed of passengers, Liverpool isnt guilty
No Liverpool isnt fully guilty, and I am aware of that.However, for the past few years, if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights??? Clue, begins in L and ends in L.
Manchester feels it has a divine right to have all of the slices of the cake even though Liverpool is as convenient or much more convenient for many of those within an hours drive of Manchester
Of course it does, as does Liverpool. I will re-iterate what I said earlier, MAN, and MAG, is a business. Do you honestly expect MAN to sit back and say, ''oh, Liverpool has all the routes to Eastern Europe, Madris and Berlin. Tell you what, as seen as we have all the long haul and full service carriers, we will let you keep them to yourself, its only Fair'' Time to wake up I think!
I will also re-iterate another point, if that the shoe was on the other foot would you complain, and likewise, if LPL had the means, dont you think they would be trying as many ways possible to get MAN pax to use LPL.
Incredible that a distance of just 40-50 miles seperates MAN/LPL, yet the gap in reality to emotion is a distance of light years!
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Post by LPL on Jul 13, 2011 12:25:11 GMT 1
No Liverpool isnt fully guilty, and I am aware of that.However, for the past few years, if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights??? Clue, begins in L and ends in L. Your paranoia is showing, just because MAN cant sustain, as many airlines have tried and failed, the route its not Liverpools fault. |
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 12:30:39 GMT 1
LPL, take a look at this thread and then try telling me im paranoid?? Hmmm. Pot, kettle, black come to mind!
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steh
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Post by steh on Jul 13, 2011 12:32:43 GMT 1
Between 1997 and 2006 Manchesters passenger numbers rose from from 15.9m to 22.2m. There was growth every year except 2002. During the same period Liverpool's rose from 0.6m to 5.4m. Since 2007, passengers have fallen at Manchester to 17.7m last year, a drop of about 20%, in the same period Liverpool's dropped from 5.4m to 5.0m, a drop of 7%.
If Manchester is being robbed of passengers, Liverpool isnt guiltyNo Liverpool isnt fully guilty, and I am aware of that.However, for the past few years, if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights??? Clue, begins in L and ends in L. Manchester feels it has a divine right to have all of the slices of the cake even though Liverpool is as convenient or much more convenient for many of those within an hours drive of ManchesterOf course it does, as does Liverpool. I will re-iterate what I said earlier, MAN, and MAG, is a business. Do you honestly expect MAN to sit back and say, '' oh, Liverpool has all the routes to Eastern Europe, Madris and Berlin. Tell you what, as seen as we have all the long haul and full service carriers, we will let you keep them to yourself, its only Fair'' Time to wake up I think! I will also re-iterate another point, if that the shoe was on the other foot would you complain, and likewise, if LPL had the means, dont you think they would be trying as many ways possible to get MAN pax to use LPL. Incredible that a distance of just 40-50 miles seperates MAN/LPL, yet the gap in reality to emotion is a distance of light years! Since when has Liverpool expected all the slices of the cake? Liverpool will always be the secondary airport to Manchester in the north west, but Manchester would prefer it not to be there altogether. As I said much earlier in the thread, I have no problem Ryanair basing some planes at Manchester, no reason why the two airports cant exist side by side with routes complementing each other, I do have a problem with Manchester trying to finish Liverpool off altogether. Yes its a business and airlines will decide where to put their planes, but when Manchester offers inducements to airlines to pull routes out of Liverpool passengers who may prefer to fly from here are inconvenienced. If passengers say they wont fly from Liverpool due to security or immigration delays fair enough, but in a worst case scenario, we may see passengers who want to fly from Liverpool being denied the chance because Manchester is bunging airlines to fly from there instead. |
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Post by LPL on Jul 13, 2011 12:34:17 GMT 1
You prove it every time (No Liverpool isnt fully guilty, and I am aware of that.However, for the past few years, if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights??? Clue, begins in L and ends in L.) with your posts since you started posting here.
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 12:39:03 GMT 1
Since when has Liverpool expected all the slices of the cake?
But this is the point im trying to prove. Why is it ok for LPL to want all slices of the cake, but not MAN??
but when Manchester offers inducements to airlines to pull routes out of Liverpool passengers who may prefer to fly from here are inconvenienced
But, thats what business do. Why do you think DFS always has a sale on. Why do you think ASDA are offering to match the price of any supermarket shop, plus give 10% back?
Yes, Ill admit it is harsh, but, if you were the owner of MAN, Id be willing to bet £1 million you would be doing the exact same think.
I know its easier to say this if you are at the MAN end, but, like Ive said before, again and again, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldnt complain (and the above quote proves this).
At the end of the day, thats business. You adapt, you increase your market share and you try to make as much profit as you can. Its the way it works.
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 12:42:45 GMT 1
You prove it every time (No Liverpool isnt fully guilty, and I am aware of that.However, for the past few years, if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights??? Clue, begins in L and ends in L.) with your posts since you started posting here
And once again you miss the point completely!!!
Arguing with you is like a child. Your posts always seem to be based on the childish attitude of 'I know you are coz' you said you are but what am I?'' Remember that phrase for your school days? Course you do, you still use it!
I didnt say I wasnt paranoid, but, I said to review this thread and then tell me whos really paranoid here. This whole thread is based on it for f**ks sake!
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steh
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Post by steh on Jul 13, 2011 12:48:57 GMT 1
Since when has Liverpool expected all the slices of the cake?But this is the point im trying to prove. Why is it ok for LPL to want all slices of the cake, but not MAN?? But, thats what business do. Why do you think DFS always has a sale on. Why do you think ASDA are offering to match the price of any supermarket shop, plus give 10% back? Yes, Ill admit it is harsh, but, if you were the owner of MAN, Id be willing to bet £1 million you would be doing the exact same think. I know its easier to say this if you are at the MAN end, but, like Ive said before, again and again, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldnt complain (and the above quote proves this). At the end of the day, thats business. You adapt, you increase your market share and you try to make as much profit as you can. Its the way it works. Liverpool doesn't expect all of the cake does it, that's what I'm saying, Liverpool accepts Manchester will always be there and bigger. I live 10 minutes drive from Sainsburys. Tescos, Morrisons and Asda, its quiet easy to pick and choose and take whatever offers they have going, a bit different comparison when an airline route simply pulls out the local airport which is more convenient for a few million passengers. You admit its harsh, which I guess you admit it is somehwat underhand as well, the airport is treating the airline as the customer, when ultimately it is the passenger (no matter how much of an inconvenience O'Leary treats them) and they are the ones put out by route changes. I note just about every one of your posts is in relation to Manchester routes so I can only guess you have no loyalty to or interest in the development of Liverpool airport whatsoever. |
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Post by LPL on Jul 13, 2011 12:51:37 GMT 1
And once again you miss the point completely!!! You keep spouting 'its business' but then say 'if pax from MAN want to go to MAD/SXF/Eastern Europe, which airport have they had to go to for non-stop flights'. So is it business that those routes can thrive from LPL and MAN cant having been tried many times previously? As for 'Arguing with you is like a child', you need to take time out and re-read responses to your posts on Pprune. |
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Post by LPL on Jul 13, 2011 12:54:08 GMT 1
I note just about every one of your posts is in relation to Manchester routes so I can only guess you have no loyalty to or interest in the development of Liverpool airport whatsoever. His agenda is very clear to see from day one, its designed to provoke. By you posting facts and common sense you are getting right up his nose. |
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 12:57:28 GMT 1
I live 10 minutes drive from Sainsburys. Tescos, Morrisons and Asda, its quiet easy to pick and choose and take whatever offers they have going, a bit different comparison when an airline route simply pulls out the local airport which is more convenient for a few million passengers
You have just proven my point more perfectly than I ever could!
Lets just re- quote it again so it sinks in:
I live 10 minutes drive from Sainsburys. Tescos, Morrisons and Asda, its quiet easy to pick and choose and take whatever offers they have going
Just like this, ultimatly passengers have a choice of where to fly from. Say Ryanair runs LPL-AGP and MAN-AGP. If more passengers choose MAN over LPL, or even LPL over MAN, then one will face the chop to be consolidated where the more demand exsists.
Do you honestly think Easy or Ryanair would say 'oh were making a tonne of money at XXX airport, but, we will pull it anyway, just dont feel like flying there any more''
We seem to be forgetting that Ryanair have said LPL wont be reduced, so, Im not sure why we are all moaning anyway?
I note just about every one of your posts is in relation to Manchester routes so I can only guess you have no loyalty to or interest in the development of Liverpool airport whatsoever
Far from it. I live in Cheshire, and, have defended LPL to family and friends where needed. My girlfiends dad recently wanted to fly to Berlin. He wanted to fly MAN-FRA-TXL, but managed to convince him Easy LPL-SXF was a better option, which he took.
When you know nothing about a person, dont make assumptions that you know them, as you dont.
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 13:02:55 GMT 1
His agenda is very clear to see from day one, its designed to provoke.
By you posting facts and common sense you are getting right up his nose
Common sense? If you see any of that amongst the 'MAN is out to get us' posts, let me know?
I really annoy you dont I LPL?
And as for provoking, by adding nothing to the debate, what exactly is the post Ive quoted? Again, pot, kettle, black???
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steh
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Post by steh on Jul 13, 2011 13:19:26 GMT 1
I live 10 minutes drive from Sainsburys. Tescos, Morrisons and Asda, its quiet easy to pick and choose and take whatever offers they have going, a bit different comparison when an airline route simply pulls out the local airport which is more convenient for a few million passengersYou have just proven my point more perfectly than I ever could! Lets just re- quote it again so it sinks in: I live 10 minutes drive from Sainsburys. Tescos, Morrisons and Asda, its quiet easy to pick and choose and take whatever offers they have going. The difference is, no matter how good an offer Sainsburys does, I will not take them up on it becuase of an irrational hatred I have of them following a year working there whilst a student in the early 90s and will stick with Asda or perhaps Tesco, even though my mate has boycotted them as they didnt help his then 9 month pregnant girlfriend pack her bags. With airports its different, as the passengers has to go where the airline puts ther services from. As for your point that an airline wont axe a profitable route, the proximity of Liverpool and Manchester means they may well do if Manchester is offering considerably cheaper charges for going from there, they have pulled out of plenty of airports in the past and played them off against each other over charges. 80% of their Alicante operations are being axed from October due to that airports insistence on using airbridges. atwonline.com/airline-finance-data/news/ryanair-cut-services-80-alicante-over-airbridges-decision-0405 |
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Post by delta154 on Jul 13, 2011 13:30:01 GMT 1
The difference is, no matter how good an offer Sainsburys does, I will not take them up on it becuase of an irrational hatred I have of them
Thats different, as thats a personal issue you have had with them. 1000's of people wouldnt boycott sainsburys because of this very issue.
I read somewhere (on paper so cant post here), that only approx 35% of people stay loyal to a brand. 8% avoid a brand due to an issue (perhaps maybe like yourself and sainsburys), and 57% will happily use other brands as and when suited them.
This means 57% of passengers quite frankly dont care which airport they fly from, as long as the deal is good for them.
As for your point that an airline wont axe a profitable route, the proximity of Liverpool and Manchester means they may well do if Manchester is offering considerably cheaper charges for going from there
But then there is a very simple solution to this, LPL undercut MAN. Granted it would be hard, as seen as MAN has more capital behind them, and the fact a study has shown that behind Brussels and Riga, MAN is one of the cheapest airports in Europe on a per-landing basis.
LPL must have had a better deal than MAN in the past, otherwise Easyjet/Ryanair/Wizz would have been at MAN and not LPL, so surely they can do it again?
80% of their Alicante operations are being axed from October due to that airports insistence on using airbridges
Its for a seperate debate, but, I wouldnt read too much into this. Most of the 'cut' capacity was summer seasonal anyway, and the other routes may not have been profitable so the disguise of the above excuse was used.
Dont forget, Michael O leary is a very vocal and publicity stunting fella, so, he used the above excuse to get a cheaper deal.
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steh
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Post by steh on Jul 13, 2011 13:47:54 GMT 1
[quote author=delta154 board=eggpdevelopments thread=6785 post=36073 time=1310560201
But then there is a very simple solution to this, LPL undercut MAN. Granted it would be hard, as seen as MAN has more capital behind them, and the fact a study has shown that behind Brussels and Riga, MAN is one of the cheapest airports in Europe on a per-landing basis.
LPL must have had a better deal than MAN in the past, otherwise Easyjet/Ryanair/Wizz would have been at MAN and not LPL, so surely they can do it again?
[/quote]
I think one thing we would agree on is that Liverpool won't be able to undercut Manchester. Going back to what I said at the the very start though, is Manchester charging Jet2, Monarch, Flybe and full service the same prices as Ryanair, or are they maliciously and cynically offering them charging them far less than Liverpool can to drive Liverpool out of business.
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